546: Making A Career Change Abroad Through Intentional Networking

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 00:01

I tried to do that on my own and realized very, very quickly that I was going nowhere fast. The job searches were pretty much leading me. I was very overwhelmed, and very scattered throughout my searches, not really knowing where to focus or how to focus.

Introduction 00:22

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you. Figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:47

Over the years, we've shown you a lot of career changes that most people would consider impossible. We know from being on the inside of these, that it can be really challenging to think about how on earth someone would make this career change from one drastically different occupation to another or how they might go and get what most people would consider to be an impossible dream job, and many, many other things between. So that's one of the reasons why we take great pains to show you how it works from the inside. For example, how does someone go from identifying a list of organizations that they might want to work for, and getting an opportunity with their number one company on that list?

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 01:37

I was able to properly position myself and focus myself like in this career transition. And that's the key that had been missing this entire time. I didn't know how to position myself. I didn't know how to focus, and I didn't really know what I wanted at the base.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:53

That's Tanya Malcolm-Revell. Tonya's story is super interesting because she was trying to find her ideal opportunity in a completely different country. She's from the US. But her husband and she were relocating to London. The way she found her opportunity is even more interesting, especially since she ended up working with her number one organization that she had said, "Hey, this is where I want to work." So listen close throughout this conversation as she shares exactly how she did it. Here she is telling you about where her career started.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 02:30

Well, it started in New York City in television production. So I really cut my teeth in the MTV Music Television arena, and was in there, gosh, for about 12-13 years, on and off, doing exploring within television production, and then jumping in and out to different facets of the Music Television arena. So I was, like I said, a TV producer. But I also did experiential marketing around events. And I worked on festivals. And until very recently, I was working as a tour manager for pretty big bands. And like I said, I've done this for years and years and years. And the overwhelming process throughout every new job that I would take was, "I really don't like this." I really don't like something in my job because it's not fulfilling. But it's not necessarily the work itself, although I'm sure there are bits and pieces that drive me nuts. But it's not that particularly, it's a bigger umbrella. And I can't quite put my finger on what the heck it is. But you know, there's a new job, and it's right in front of me. So I'll go ahead and grab that one anyway. And that's been pretty much my story year over a year, you know, the available job and not really diving in deeply into, "Why am I having these thoughts?" "Why is this job career not really fulfilling?" So my journey started, gosh, you heard what I was saying about not being fulfilled about my position. But my day really started to transition really happened when my husband and I decided to move outside of the United States and come over to the United Kingdom. And I was ecstatic for many reasons. But in terms of my career, I thought this would be a great opportunity to just not reinvent myself, but maybe just do that reinvent myself, look at what I've been doing, and start from scratch, which sounds all well and good. And ideally, that would have happened and I would have gotten a job the next month or day or whatever.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:37

24 hours later at least. "We've arrived. Okay, where's it at?"

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 04:42

Unfortunately, after a little bit of a longer ordeal getting a work either the spouse works these out. I just kind of sat down and said I refuse to fall into my old ways. I really need to think about what I want to get out of my next position. I'm in a great place to do that right now. There's no overwhelming monetary need for me to jump into something, as I felt that years and years living in New York City, it's just all about the next job and who knows you. So I felt like just slow down and really evaluate where I was at. And I tried to do that on my own and realized very, very quickly that I was going nowhere fast. The job searches were pretty much leading me. I was very overwhelmed and very scattered throughout my searches, not really knowing where to focus or how to focus. So I'm getting more and more frustrated throughout the entire process. And then of course, as I'm looking at the calendar, all of a sudden, a week has gone by, two weeks have gone by, now than a month, and then two months, three months, and I was getting very bummed out, to say the least. And then I think I went online. And I just said, "I need to find a podcast about career transitions and finding a job." And I stumbled across your interview on Mac's list. And I swear I listened to you. And that Happen To Your Career bootcamp we're talking about, and I say, "Oh my god, that's me. This is what I need." I need guidance, I need a voice who can help me get to the bottom of what I truly need to get, not just for myself, but just great work-life balance for myself, my husband, my career, etc. And I went online, and I think we were talking within the next couple of hours, I called or emailed you right away. And voila, I was inundated with the Happen To Your Career process. And I have to say, Scott, it's when I was talking to my husband. And I said, "This is the first time where I feel like I have found someone in something that is going to make me focus and give me purpose." But I feel like my purpose is about to explode everywhere. And having gone through a couple different conversations with you, I jumped into the boot camp. And the rest is history, so to speak, in the sense that ultimately, and I'll give you the abbreviated version, and then dive in a little bit more deeply. But ultimately, putting in the work and the effort throughout the boot camp, really paying attention to myself and my thoughts and well kind of my gut as well– what worked, what didn't work throughout my career, what I was looking for, what my wants were, what my motivations were, my minimums, my ideals, etc. And just putting this all down on paper, I realized it's not rocket science. At the end of the day, this is me. But what it did for me is it helped to put me into perspective. It helped me to really think about myself in a different light by evaluating, like, my skills, my beliefs, my needs, and my wants. I mean, it was almost like I was able to see myself through a bigger lens. And then in turn, now, I was able to properly position myself and focus myself like in this career transition. And that's the key that had been missing this entire time. I didn't know how to position myself, I didn't know how to focus. And I didn't really know what I wanted at the base. So going through everything coming out of it at the back end with this great, like my career profile, and it's there, and it's what I want, what I need. And then focusing my search on companies based upon that, that shared my belief system that had the values that I was looking for. I targeted Wanderlust, and I think it was one of the first companies that came out of my mouth as soon as I had this great profile. And I was like, "I want to work for Wanderlust."

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:27

Really? That's pretty cool.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 08:29

Absolutely. And I had a couple of other places on my list as you show. That was always key and number one. So yeah. And then I just did everything that you guys basically coached us to do– the reach out, messaging your network to see who knows who and reaching out to them and seeing if you get introductions and being very bold and forward, which is part of what I do in my job. But in terms of a job search, I was very hesitant to do.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:57

It's outside your normal conventional operating area.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 09:00

And that's what the other piece it's like, okay, look, you want something this desperately or this badly, then why wouldn't you work outside of your normal operating levels or normal conventions? What's the worst that they can say? You know. But that's better than no answer, whatsoever, that you wouldn't have gotten in the first place. So I did all of that. And I got into... One of the co-founders of the festival, I got directly to him. And he in turn, then obviously responded to my email. And then because I'm now in the UK, he shot me through to that arm that deals with all of the branding outside of the United States. So then, of course, the bigger conversation started there with that entity. And it was a little bit of a painful process just because they weren't quite ready to have the deeper conversations, although they did recognize that I would be a good fit. It was one of those things. And you've mentioned this, it's not necessarily what they can do for you right then and there. It's about establishing a relationship and keeping that relationship going so that when there is an opportunity, you're the first person they're going to think of. And Scott, that's exactly what I did.

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:12

You know, this is so wonderful because I'm not surprised by it anymore. I don't think that's the right word. But I'm always amazed at how when you define what it is that you want, and when you know what you want, and then when you take action or ask for what you want or go after what it is that you want, very often…

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 10:33

It manifests itself, yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:36

Yeah. It is just really interesting phenomenon that I observe all the time. In my life I've observed in a lot of the lives of our students, clearly, this has happened for you. And just like you said, the other really interesting part of that is 100% of the time, or I should say, nearly 100% of the time, what we want is outside the realm of what we've done before. Which means that by definition, it's outside our normal comfort zones, or normal operation zones, or anything else, which also, by definition makes it uncomfortable. So kudos to you for moving through that, because that's not an easy thing to do at all.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 11:12

It wasn't. But you know, Scott, at the end of the day, if you want something and you're determined to make a change in your life, and in your career, I could not go another day saying, "Oh, I'm not happy." Or "I don't like my job." Or "I wish I didn't have to go to work today." I was over that. I spent way too much time thinking of the negative. So there was only one thing for me to do. And that was focused on me and the positive and the future. I couldn't dwell on the past anymore. And it wasn't beneficial for me, nor was beneficial for my job hunt. So I still am flabbergasted that the conversations went very, very well with Wanderlust, but I'm still flabbergasted that they said, "Hey, by the way, the London events are starting up, and we'd like for you to lead the charge on it. Are you available to start tomorrow?" So yeah, it was exactly like you had kind of presented it in the sense that the hard work, the dedication, having your career profile, or dialing that far down into your wants, your needs, your beliefs, etc, like I mentioned, and coming up with that, you can only find something that is going to speak to you and represent who you are, because that's what you're focusing on, and that's where your career search is going towards. So at the end of the day, whatever presents itself is going to be a positive outcome for you, no matter what. And that has been the biggest revelation for me. I will never go out for a job just because it's presented itself on some random LinkedIn job blast and it sounds good. Other than me focusing on companies that I know that I will be appreciated in, I know that I will be able to grow in, I know that I will be able to work in some sort of collaborative environment. A big piece for me that having a flexible work schedule, I really don't like taking the tube during rush hour. I know too many people who do. Having a schedule where I could flex my hours and work from home when I wanted to, and also go into an office if I wanted to. And they are 100% on board with that, which I did a couple of fist pumps in the air when I heard that. But more importantly, working with people whose values are really aligned with me in mind. So yeah, I got all that. I got everything I wanted. That's the craziest part, everything, not one, not two, not two and a half like everything.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:43

It feels crazy right now. But I think the cool part is that now that you've done that, you realize that that is something that you can build for yourself every single time that you want to make a switch or, I don't know, if something changes in your life in which you need something different and you have to make a change for one reason or another because something no longer aligned, then you now have the tools and the experience to know that that's totally possible for yourself, which is super, super cool.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 14:12

Absolutely. And I have the tools to be able to pivot. I mean, it's called a career pivot for a reason, right? And I feel more confident in being able to shift left to right, front to back, whatever, but knowing that I'm going to move forward in a direction that aligns with me. And again, I've never had that before. I've never had that feeling behind me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:33

What do you feel like were some of the key either events or things that had to happen in order for you to be ready to make this type of change and look at it in a different way? As you look back, what were some of those for you? And I think it's a little bit different for everybody but I'm curious.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 14:51

Yeah. Absolutely. I think 100%. Like phase one was figured out what the heck I wanted to get out of my career. What I wanted to get out of this next phase in my life. And I think everybody has to do that before they can be successful in anything period. And you can go through life, you can go through your jobs and be successful. But to truly get every drop out of the experience, and more positive, obviously the negative, you've got to figure out what makes you tick, and what's gonna keep you going 100%.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:23

Well, let me ask you even a little bit before that, what caused you to get frustrated? To the point where you wanted to do it differently than you had done it before. I know that you had mentioned, hey, there was this move to London, and it seems like the opportune time, and certainly timing had happened. But I know plenty of people that have made a move abroad or moved to a different country. I've interacted with those people over email that aren't to the point and level where they're necessarily going to take action.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 15:53

Got it. Absolutely. Well, as I mentioned, I was working in television production and entertainment. And what I didn't mention is I was living in Los Angeles prior to moving to the UK. So being inundated in the entertainment arena, again, was a great stepping stone. It's gotten me to where I'm at today. But what it really quickly does is it frustrates you by the amount of ego that needs to be managed throughout if it's artists, producers, etc. The one thing through my search, my profile, I've really understood that I'm very good at being that person that can morph myself into different situations. So I'm very good at flexing and being supportive of others. And I was doing that more to an extent where it was more detrimental to me and my career health.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:47

That's interesting.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 16:47

Yeah, I was giving out more to others than I was getting back. So and you know, okay, great. It was me choosing to do this. But the consistency of doing that year over year and feeling like, while yes, I was progressing in my career in terms of title, I wasn't getting anything back in terms of support, or just even if it was just a little kudos, "Hey, by the way, great job." Nothing. Just nothing in that regard. And it didn't make me feel good at the end of the day. While you have the event, the project, the festival, the concert was a success. I was still kind of at a, you could say 1 to 10, I was always at a 5 in terms of what I would get out of it. So I was absolutely frustrated with that. And every job even moved through different arenas, from television production to festivals, thinking, okay, maybe something new and different will happen here. At the base, I really did like a lot of the work that I was doing, it was just this overarching piece that I thought I could change up. And unfortunately, it wasn't working, at least in that entertainment festival TV arena. So with the move, I knew I wanted to put a stop to that cycle. And that I wanted to get a lot more out of myself and out of what I was doing for others. And I wanted to be more empowering to a community, but also something that I could feel proud of and say, "Hey, Mom, Dad, take a look at what I just produced." You know, instead of some random show on MTV. So that was the impetus behind me really starting the journey. London was the conduit, and Happen To Your Career was the platform. So yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:26

I love that. I'm gonna borrow that. It might change from London.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 18:33

Absolutely. No, but that's exactly, that's my story on the front end into a nutshell. And then other things that's just in terms of what else had to happen to make this happen was very quickly, I've always been into yoga, I've always been into health and wellness. I haven't been the woohoo, you know, 24/7 type of person. But it's always been very integral in my life. No matter where I'd been, if I'd been on the road, I would always take out time to go to the gym, maybe take a yoga class, go to the wide, walk around the park or whatever, you know, have a good meal. So that's always been a foundation of who I am. So, which was great. But I didn't have a network here in London. So the other part is I really had to establish a network and put my face out there, take those leaps that didn't feel comfortable, and maybe present myself at an event where I knew nobody, and with business cards and a handshake just make people know me, like, "I'm here yet again." And I did that. And with a couple of key influencers in the health and wellness market. And it just resonated. So I put myself in front of yoga studios and actually said "Hey, by the way, if there's an opportunity, I'd love to volunteer and help out and once a week or if it's event-based, I am here." And I actually got signed on with one of the largest yoga studios here in London.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 19:55

And funnily enough, this is a little secret, but funnily enough, we're going to try to see if we can get them on board at Wanderlust because it's such a great studio and I have all the contacts now.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:55

Really?

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:04

Hold on. That's it. This is something that is really interesting that happens with nearly everybody that goes through this process and it's so fascinating to me. You go through, and I'm going to call it just doing the work, you're putting in the wraps, for lack of a better phrase. And inevitably, you start to build relationships. And then as you build those relationships, you don't know where or when necessarily, but those actually end up becoming useful or mutually beneficial for…

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 20:06

[20:35] Like one degree of separation.

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:23

[20:37] Yeah, exactly. For a variety of different reasons. Not necessarily just transactional that's gonna get me to my next job, or whatever it happens to be. But this is super, super, super cool. So now, you not only got to know these people, and it sounds like people that you were really interested in knowing anyway, based on the work that you had done, and said, "Hey, this is kind of where my values and interests and everything else fall." But then now it sounds like you're getting to work with them continuously or possibly, right?

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 21:06

Absolutely. And you're right. The people that I have met, just by doing that is, the world is large until it's not. You know, and the health and wellness industry in the UK is booming. But it's still, I mean, compared to the US, it's still fledgling, so the people who shine and actually take an active part and participate, you will see them over and over again. Or you know, or maybe you recognize another person at the next event. So having the touch points with the yoga studios, having the touch points with the gyms, having the touch points with the great health platform aggregator that just kind of brings in the Health Wellness news and not regurgitates that brings it in a nice condensed package to the consumers. And they also have events. So I would go to their events where you would meet influencers in the Health and Wellness arena, whether it's clothing lines, or food products, etc. So just a bunch of different POVs in this arena, then afterwards, you'd get to meet them cards or exchange and so forth, and so on. And that's just what I was doing. And I kept building and building and building, so much so that with Wanderlust, you know, a big part of any event is the ties into the community, and obviously for the consumer draw, but also what can we present to the consumer that they're gonna like, and appreciate. So having gone to all of these wellness industry events, where they presented the new and upcoming trendy thing, or what's resonating, I already know all of this stuff, the research is done. And now we just have to go out and engage them. So I could not have made this up, even if I tried. But no, really I couldn't. But just staying on top of it, even when, you know, here in London, the rain, you know, rainy day didn't really feel like doing anything, I didn't really feel like going up to Soho to go to an event but I just, you know, at the end of the day what do you have to lose, and just did it. And every single time I've walked away saying "Oh my gosh, I got this person's contact. I had a great time and learned more about X, Y, and Z out of everything." And nothing has been too small or too big.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:15

Let me ask you about a couple of different pieces of the process for lack of a better phrase like your journey, we'll call it that. You mentioned earlier, you had sent an email and connected with one of the main people for events.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 23:29

Yep.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:30

Right? So I'm curious for people, we touched on it earlier, but I'm curious, what you actually did in that particular case, and why you feel that particular email contact, et cetera actually worked? What about it?

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 23:44

That's a great question. So it wasn't as simple as I, you know, it wasn't as streamlined as that. What happened was, I came out of, I forgot what week it was in the boot camp, and I was like, "Eureka! I know what I want. And I want to work for Wanderlust." And again, just started looking at– A; my network first and foremost, to see if I had any ties with Wanderlust. And on the first level, I didn't think that I did. And I just started mentioning it to everybody. Again, I'm trying to manifest it. So I'm throwing it out there. And every person that I met, every person that I had worked with, I said, "Hey, by the way, you know, I'm really interested in working with Wanderlust. Do you know anybody or have you been to one? Etc, etc." So I actually landed on a co-worker who had, she said, "I don't know anybody worked directly at Wanderlust, but I think I know somebody who's good friends with one of the founders." And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me." So based upon my relationship with this woman, which was fantastic, my co-worker, she then introduced me to reached out, yes indeed, that this other woman had a relationship with the co-founder, and then in turn based upon their relationship introduced me on the weight, the strength of my work, my ethics and just what I could bring to the party. So then this woman took it upon my friend's word that I'm a badass and introduced me to the founder. Now, that was great. I've now got an email address, I have somebody who's setting this up, that was a big part. But what really sealed the deal, and this is something that Lisa and I had gone through, and you're sending these emails out to people, and they're getting a crap ton of them day in day out, you've got to differentiate yourself one, but you also have to say, "Look, this isn't just about me trying to get something from you, I want to give something back to you as well, if possible." And it's an information exchange, first and foremost. And I know I'm a little view, but you need to know what that means. And I think the person help in this your transition moving overseas. So more succinctly and more deeply than I've just kind of articulated it, I sent a really badass, excuse my French, email to Sean outlined all of this. And he said, "Yeah, you do seem like the best person. Let me introduce you over to the AMEA people." The people dealing with Europe, Middle East, and Asia.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:45

[26:09] Very cool.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 23:47

[26:10] And that's how that transpired. It was really cool. But I don't think he would have given me the time of day if, A; if the intros hadn't weren't as strong as they were on me from my friends, but, B; in terms of the written communication from myself, if that had lacked or didn't really show my enthusiasm, then again, I'm one of many, as much as I like to think I'm amazing, which I am. On paper that can fade and fizzle fast if you're not scintillating, or you don't kind of let them know that you're really willing to be the brand, or you're really into their brand.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:47

Especially recently, a lot of research on how these types of connections are made and why they're so effective at. And first of all, it's so interesting that most, not all, but most, like someplace in the range of 70 to 80% of these types of opportunities, these types of "it's my dream job" type opportunities are found based on interactions through weak ties.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 27:13

Yes.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:14

Yeah. Meaning that it is not necessarily somebody in your immediate network. Because if it's somebody you interact with all the time, or somebody who you regularly see or regularly talk to, or whatever else, then you're probably already aware of any people or opportunities that they know immediately. However, it's usually in the less strong ties and less strong relationships, where you begin to find those type of things that aren't known to you when you're seeking it out. In this case, it was a former coworker who…

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 27:44

Yeah. Absolutely.

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:46

People underestimate, I have, I did for many years underestimated the weight that is carried behind a strong recommendation. And some of the psychological reasons that trust and credibility are already there, when you have that initial weight behind it for somebody that you know, and like already, and it adds like 150-pound weight to whatever force you're already carrying. So your really awesome written communication that you had sent off was, I don't know, it's like a parachute or something along those lines, or sailboat or something like that. And all of a sudden, you get this huge gust of wind behind it and now you're on cruise. And struggling for an analogy, but we'll work on that.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 28:24

No, I 100% agree. And again, it was just articulating. It's like, "Look, I am looking for a job in this company, or with this type of company, or with this particular company in general. Do you know anybody? Or just keep me in mind." And again, that was my mantra.

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:40

Yeah, this is so amazing for so many different reasons. I'm really curious because we've got so many people that listen to the show that are in the place that you were not that long ago, where…

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 28:54

I was that person listening to the show.

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:56

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 28:58

In the same position, absolutely.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:00

Yeah, you've been in the cycle. You're there and you're frustrated, and you're not entirely sure what to do differently. But what advice would you give that person who's in that place?

Tanya Malcolm-Revell 29:11

Don't let the hard days or the days where you don't think you're moving forward, or that nothing's happening stop you or slow you down. I think that for me was the really, really, really tough part when I didn't see the end of the rainbow. You know, the end in sight. I couldn't necessarily get that particular connection that I wanted, or I already gotten some sort of negative feedback or no feedback. Don't let that stop you of anything. Double down in your efforts. And I know it's harder to do than say, but you know what? Caffeine and chocolate will get you through it. Just do it. You've got to do it. Because I worked so hard that when this happened, it felt so friggin sweet, that much sweeter. I would have been happy no matter what. But knowing that I made this happen, it wasn't somebody's coming to me, it wasn't me trying to throw my resume into a random lotto of 100 million other people for the same job. This was me networking, this was me... This was me just kind of sticking with it even when I wasn't getting a response on an email or a phone call, I was just calling back and making sure that they knew who I was. So stay strong, kick-ass. And just remember that you are who you are, and you bring a lot to the table.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:33

Absolutely love it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:40

Hey, if you love this story where we talk through and walk you through step by step how someone got to more meaningful work, then you'll absolutely love our audiobook– Happen to Your Career: An Unconventional Approach to Career Change and Meaningful Work. I even got to narrate it, which was so fun. And something that I really enjoyed doing and will definitely do for future books as well. But it also contains firsthand accounts from career changers on how they made the move to more meaningful work, just like we include on the podcast here. And actually, it's been called the best audiobook experience ever by some reviewers. You can find those reviews, and the book itself on Audible, Amazon, or any other place where books are sold. Seriously, just pause this right now and go over to Amazon or Audible or wherever you want and download it. You can be reading it and started on your career change in literally seconds.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:34

Now here's a sneak peek into what's coming up next week right here on Happen To Your Career.

Speaker 3 31:39

That aspect of loving what you're doing is so critical. I'm not saying something that is actually false, which is just follow your passion and the money will follow. That's not true. But what is true is that if you're doing something that you love, and it's fun, it's more likely that it will happen.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:00

Is there any particular subject or area that people tend to come to you for? Maybe you're great at creating travel itineraries, or maybe everybody comes to you when they have a problem and needs to talk about it. So you don't even have an answer on this right away. But as you're listening to this episode, thinking of this can actually be really helpful as a way to begin figuring out how to do work that you enjoy. In fact, Happen To Your Career turned 10 years old this year, and this is exactly how I started our company.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:38

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.