547: Embracing the Unconventional to Craft a Career You Love

Dave Crenshaw 00:01

That aspect of loving what you're doing is so critical. I'm not saying something that is actually false, which is just follow your passion and the money will follow. That's not true. But what is true is that if you're doing something that you love, and it's fun, it's more likely that it will happen.

Introduction 00:26

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you. Figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:51

Is there any particular subject or area that people tend to come to you for? Maybe you're great at creating travel itineraries, or maybe everybody comes to you when they have a problem and needs to talk about it. So you don't even have an answer on this right away. But as you're listening to this episode, thinking of this can actually be really helpful as a way to begin figuring out how to do work that you enjoy. In fact, Happen To Your Career turned 10 years old this year, and this is exactly how I started our company.

Dave Crenshaw 01:28

I think we always view getting fired as a negative thing or that it's personal. But sometimes it's actually the right thing for us or for another person. If we're leaving, and we've got somebody in that position, letting go is not always a bad thing.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:43

By the way, that's Dave Crenshaw, and this episode is going to flip the script a bit because I was a guest on his podcast, The Dave Crenshaw Success Project. He asked me really intriguing questions, many that I haven't been asked before on other podcasts and other guest appearances. And I enjoyed our conversation so much that I wanted to share it here on our podcast. Also, an unexpected subject we dove into was, Dave and I discovered we both have been diagnosed with ADHD. We had a really great discussion about how each of us had been able to harness it, allowing us to create unique career pathways that work for us, allowed us to be successful. And I've shared different parts of my story over the years, but I've never really laid out the full original story as Dave refers to it. And with HTYC turning 10 years old this year, it was nice to be able to reflect on many of the career changes I personally made and how each one of them even being in a rock band has contributed to HTYC that exists today. Let's jump into the conversation.

Dave Crenshaw 02:47

So I always like to start by asking people the same question because what we're going to do in a very loose chronological order, we're going to explore your career path. So when you were a teenager, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:03

All the things. I wanted to be all the things. Now the real answer is that it changed quite a bit. I started out wanting to be a... I wanted to go into space at one point. And then there was a time where I wanted to be a videogame designer. I drew a very, I guess, long video game, this was back when video games only scrolled two ways like 2D along the screen.

Dave Crenshaw 03:29

Sure. Yeah. Legend of Zelda 2.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:32

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So there was that point all the way to architect to, I wanted to be in a band as I really got interested in music. It was quite a few different things. And when I realized I was not going to be in a band for the rest of my life, because turns out, bands travel all the time. And I realized when I was 15, I didn't want to do that.

Dave Crenshaw 03:56

Oh, so it's 15. What kind of music were you doing?

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:58

I was really into Pearl Jam, Nirvana, but also Blues. And like there was a point in time where I got asked to play with a Blues band. And turns out I wasn't old enough to go into the bars and play.

Dave Crenshaw 04:14

Yeah, there's that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:15

There was that but yeah. Quite a bit of that. That was my main, like, Pearl Jam was literally the password when I only had one-word passwords for a long, long, long time.

Dave Crenshaw 04:28

Well, that sounds like a child of the 90s talking about Nirvana. Yeah, so because I also had a band for a few years.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:37

Oh, really?

Dave Crenshaw 04:38

Yeah. This was in the early 2000s. But yeah, my wife supported me while I had a band. So.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:44

That is fantastic. I'm learning so much about you, Dave.

Dave Crenshaw 04:47

Yeah, yeah. Well, we're here to learn about you but it's still fun to make that connection. So what did you study when you went to college? What was your focus then?

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:59

Similar to my childhood, you'll notice a few patterns here.

Dave Crenshaw 05:03

Okay.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:03

I made a lot of changes. I think I changed majors nine times if I recall correctly.

Dave Crenshaw 05:12

Wow. So with that many major changes, the question that comes to my mind is, have you been diagnosed with ADHD?

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:20

Yes. And if I'm not mistaken, you have as well. Is that correct?

Dave Crenshaw 05:26

Yep. Freaking off the charts. ADHD the psychologist said to me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:31

Freaking off the charts. I love that official diagnosis. I would put that on resume. And everyplace else.

Dave Crenshaw 05:37

Every time I got on stage. I tell that story. But so where did your knowledge of that, at what point did your knowledge of that diagnosis come? Did that come later?

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:48

Much later in life. In my late 20s.

Dave Crenshaw 05:53

Okay. All right.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:54

I just knew that I couldn't stick with things for some reason. And that was how it showed up, I was very excited about things I would learn rapidly. And I would blow through all the learning, do a huge amount of creation, and focus on whatever I was excited about, and then get very bored very quickly. And my performance would tank in whatever area I was interested in at the time. And then I would move on, and then I would feel bad about myself and shame myself and all the things and then wonder what was going on and then I move on to the next thing and forget about it and be excited.

Dave Crenshaw 06:32

Boy, that again, that sounds so familiar. It wasn't until I... so I was probably around 29 or 30. That's where I went and said, "I'm jumping from career to career. I don't want to be like this." Because I want to be a father that can consistently provide for my family, what's going on? And then that's when I got the diagnosis. So for me, that was a turning point in figuring out, "Oh, I have a name and a face to this. I can manage it by learning skills." Was it like that for you? Was getting that diagnosis helpful? Or was it more just well, that's great knowledge, but it's not changing my behavior at all?

Dave Crenshaw 08:03

Yeah, so it's interesting. All the years I've done, this topic has not come up yet.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:06

That's a great question. And I don't, even though, on our show the Happen To Your Podcast, we've talked about this topic a lot. And just with friends talked about this topic a lot. I don't think I've been exactly asked that question before, let me think about it for a second. I think by that point in time, I was accepting that I was wired differently, even though I didn't understand where it was coming from. And I was starting to really leverage that and use that to my advantage. So what I'm very thankful for is I had a variety of people in my life that were willing to take me on and deal with the negative sides of how ADHD showed up. And that really allowed me to cultivate the very, very positive sides of it, which gave me a huge competitive advantage to all people who don't have ADHD.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:08

Really? Interesting.

Dave Crenshaw 08:10

Yeah, it hasn't. I mean, maybe someone mentioned it offhand, but not like this. And so I do want to dig in a little bit to it. Because what people don't realize is, you know, it depends on the statistics you look at. But, you know, let's go on the high end, we're talking about 10%. So 10% of the people in the world have had the clinical condition of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, that is almost always genetic, and the way that it's passed. So usually, you see a parent, did you have a parent that was dealing with ADHD?

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:38

Yeah, so we were just celebrating my dad's birthday. This past week, we all went and stayed in a big house and everything and my dad cannot sit down. Just cannot. He'll hold conversation for a little bit, then he's on to the next thing. So yes.

Dave Crenshaw 08:52

Okay. So what that means is you either work with somebody or you know somebody or you've got somebody in your family that's dealing with this. And so I want to ask a question that's a little more personal with it. How functional were you prior to getting the diagnosis? Because I think functionality is a very, very important aspect of knowing what you're dealing with.

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:16

Hmm. I think it depends on how you define functional. However, for me, in some ways, I have learned to operate well around other people and in certain environments. And part of that was because I kept finding myself over, and this is actually thanks to my dad, too. My dad very much has this– "we're just gonna figure it out" type of attitude. It doesn't matter what it is, like, we're gonna launch a rocket in the backyard, no, a big rocket. And like, we'll just figure out how to do it. None of us are rocket scientists, but we'll figure it out. You know, and that's very much what I grew up with. So I think that that type of mentality really helped to carry me through to figure out how to operate in so many different environments, and combined with the fact that I was around really challenging situations. And I kept taking on very, very challenging situations over and over again, that propelled my skills and development and forced me, whether I liked it or not, to find ways to deal with it positively. Also, many ways to deal with it negatively. But then it became this sort of petri dish and experimentation, where I could pick and choose and see that this method allowed me to build a relationship with my family and with my coworkers. And this other method allowed me to get a lot of stuff done but, you know, would tank all the relationships and people around me.

Dave Crenshaw 10:46

Yeah. Well, I love how you took that and were looking for ways to use it to your advantage. And what I like about your story is you're highlighting something that I tell people, which is every strength has an associated weakness, and every weakness has an associated strength. And I feel like, there are a couple of camps that I see way too often when it comes to ADHD. One is the person who says, this is not a superpower, right? This isn't a good thing. And if you start treating it like as a good thing, people don't take it seriously. And they don't believe that it needs help. Right? And I feel like that does a discredit to the value that a weakness can be turned into a strength like ADHD. And then there's the other camp, it's like, this is a superpower and it's wonderful, and I can do anything with it because I have ADHD. Which also is not accurate. There is a cost associated with it. And there are skills that we must learn to manage it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:52

Yeah, we have a... I don't think it really matters what you call it, however, we have a tendency in our organization to think about this as there are a really positive side of what you're calling strengths. And then also of those strengths, there is a shadow side, or what we've referred to over the years of as an anti-strength, essentially. And I think what is really fascinating about that is that's just as true for ADHD, as it is for any other way that someone is wired, whether it is more normalized or not. And what I found, and this is the part that really just fascinates me is that, you know, is this actually a disorder at all? Or is it just one of the many, many, many ways in which people are wired? And I think that's one of the reasons I love looking at it through the strengths lens, is because then a lot of that stuff starts to fall away and you realize the same rules are true, no matter how you operate, no matter what way your brain is structured. And I find that to be a healthier place to operate from.

Dave Crenshaw 13:10

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so let's return to your story. What did you graduate in when you graduated from college?

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:16

When I finally graduated, I was a super senior, partially because I made all the changes along the way. And eventually, I started a business, doing painting and light contracting, and a number of other things too. And that was way more fun than studying to me. But it caused me to take an extra year, I was taking really low amount of credits. And then I was working 60 hours a week with my, essentially I guess, it was my third business at that point. But the first successful one, when I finally graduated, I realized that I loved the business elements. And so I graduated with a human resources degree, a general management degree. And I'm pretty sure I dropped my other major of marketing, at the same time. I think there had like one or two more classes, but I wanted to get out of there. So that was it. After all the nine changes, that's where I ended up.

Dave Crenshaw 14:15

And after that, there was a period of time that you basically entered the corporate world. How did you make a transition from that of basically being a business owner doing odd jobs, subcontracting work to actually working for a structured corporation?

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:30

Very poorly.

Dave Crenshaw 14:32

Okay.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:33

No, here's what I mean. It's not necessarily... I've heard a lot of people say, "Hey, I'm unemployable. And I could never ever work for another organization." And it wasn't about that for me as much not at that time. Instead, it was more that I had the situation that I actually loved. I had, you know, at the height of it, I had about 20 people working for me in that business and it was really profitable. I made, I don't know, like 40-ish thousand dollars a year, which is a little better than a million dollars when I was a college student. And it was enjoyable, I was learning all the time. And although I didn't love, you know, contracting and exterior painting, it wasn't the world's most fun thing, it was definitely useful skills, and I was contributing. So I went from that set of feelings. And something that I was really enjoying to doing what I felt I was supposed to do. I didn't have any positive role models for business owners around me. So instead, I assumed that what you did to be successful was you went and got a job. And then you move up the ladder really quickly. And then you make lots of money, and then you're happy, right? Isn't that not how it goes, Dave?

Dave Crenshaw 15:43

That's the dream in air quotes.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:45

Yeah.

Dave Crenshaw 15:46

Right.

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:47

So I just, with my limited exposure, I didn't understand that that was a thing that you could do. It sounds crazy. But I didn't understand. I didn't get it. So instead, I thought that when I had this really wonderful job offer what other people consider to be a good job that paid reasonably well and I was going to be able to, they were going to buy me a BMW, and all these things. And my friends and family are saying, "Oh, my goodness, you've got a job straight out of college like you've got to take that. You've got to do that." I assumed that I had to. So I sold all the pieces of my business and you know, assets and the trucks and things like that. And then I went to work, and it wasn't great.

Dave Crenshaw 16:36

Do you regret that you did that? That you sold off the business?

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:40

I did at first. Like almost immediately. I'm like, wow, this is terrible. But here's what ended up happening out of that experience, which I don't think I would change for almost anything, is I went and I was there for a year. And I was working in Portland, Oregon area. And so I was commuting. You know, my commute was roughly about two and a half, sometimes three hours a day, going both ways. And I was sitting in traffic. So I was having a lot of time to contemplate and a lot of time just hating life. And I legit had these thoughts over and over again, every single day where I was like, "Oh my god, is this what life is really like? Is this what you're supposed to do? Like, is this what adulting is?" And I thought I just couldn't hack it. So I kept trying over and over again. And at some point, I realized, this is terrible. Like I had gained 50 pounds. And I was just not happy. And my wife, a brand new bride at the time, was not happy with me either. Because I was working 80 plus hour weeks. And so I decided I had to have a conversation with my boss. So this is the part that ended up changing everything. He worked in another state, actually. So I called him on the phone. He listened for 20-30 minutes, asked a lot of questions, a lot of really great questions, carrying questions is what I'd say. And I thought, "Oh, my goodness, why didn't I have this conversation a long time ago?" And then what happened is three weeks later, he came into town, and then he fired me.

Dave Crenshaw 18:19

Interesting.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:20

Yeah, so that took a very different turn than what I expected. But I would say the wonderful to answer your earlier question really quick, the wonderful, really positive thing that came out of that is on the way driving home after being fired, and realizing "Oh, crap, I brought my new bride down here." And we don't even have a job to show for it. I took her away from her family and everything. And like now I have to tell her? Oh, my goodness, I have to like call her and tell her?" And it was pouring rain as it does in Portland sometimes. And I'm like, I can never ever, ever do this again. Like I have to figure out a way to take control of my career and figure out how to have something that's much more fulfilling that also earns quite a bit of money. And so that was the start, which became, you know, a 25-year journey almost at this point to what has led to now. So that's, there we go.

Dave Crenshaw 19:20

Do you feel that him firing you was actually a kindness? Or was it, he just knew you didn't want to work there?

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:30

You know, at first, I was. Well, at first I was really embarrassed, honestly, for so many different reasons. And I wasn't that old. Wasn't that mature, necessarily. And so I was embarrassed and I felt like he had taken it out on me. And it's like, well, why did... And that I don't think was reality. I think he was making what he felt was the best decision for the organization at the time because I also wasn't performing very well because I hated it. Oh my goodness, I despised it. And I'm not somebody who can just like fake it at work necessarily, I have to actually feel great about my situation to perform wonderful, as well. But here's the interesting part of that. Many years later, I ran into a number of people that I had worked with at the organization. And we started talking about it and ended up connecting with them and realize that he was actually very conflicted about that. He didn't really want to fire me, but my performance was so bad, that he felt that he had to, and didn't really have another alternative at that point in time, like that section or the organization that I was leading was not doing very well. And he felt like it was legit the right thing to do. So.

Dave Crenshaw 20:44

Yeah, that's why I asked that, because I think we always view getting fired as a negative thing, or that it's personal. But sometimes it's actually the right thing for us or for another person. If we're leaving, and we've got somebody in that position, letting go is not always a bad thing. And as you're telling that story, it reminded me of a couple of things. I have a book called "The Focus Business". And the book actually compares entrepreneurs to superheroes. And what I do is I say, there are seven supervillains that are trying to destroy you, and your business. And I'm talking about real-world things, like, marketing, customers, employees. So there are two things in your story that reminds me of that. Number one is the concept of the bear. And the bear is a villain who is in business, they're working in your business. And they're creating messes everywhere they go. And a lot of people have a really, really hard time letting go of that person, when in fact, it's better for them to let them go. It will help them be more successful. And the other thing is, you know, as you're talking about standing in the rain in Portland and making that decision, that's an origin story right there. Right? That's a pivotal moment. And one of the origin stories that applies, you know, I'm talking about, the book talks about entrepreneurs, but I think it applies to other people as well, as adversity. You're faced with a terrible moment. And it forces you to make a decision. This is the Iron Man's story, right? He's trapped in a cave, and he has to build the Iron Man suit to escape. It's the same thing, like, you were saying, "I can't do this to my family." And that spurred you to create, really the beginning part of the business that you have now, which is quite successful.

Scott Anthony Barlow 22:24

Absolutely. And I think that the other thing that I'm really thankful for, though, you're talking about firing people. I've fired hundreds of people, like multiple hundreds of people over the last 20 years. And I think that it's caused me to look very, very differently. Getting fired at such a young age, and my first you know, quote-unquote, professional role, that great role that everybody told me I suppose to get, it's really changed how I looked at it because it became such a wonderful situation for me. And now think about it more as, what happens if this person stays here? What am I denying them of? Because if they're not doing well, and they're not benefiting the organization, first of all, they're blocking the spot for some other person in the world that can fill that, and we're denying that person. But more importantly, we're denying this other person to go find what they are really wonderful at, what would be meaningful in their life right now. And, this is very much how we look at things in our organization. A lot of people look at our website or listen to our podcast, they're like, "Oh, you help people make career changes." But really what we do is we are focused on changing how people think about and actually do work. And this is a great example of a different way to think about what work even is, and what creates a great situation for you, this situation of being fired.

Dave Crenshaw 23:51

Yeah. Well, I love how you took that experience that you had working in corporations helps you now too, because now you understand what that was like. I don't think you'd have the success that you're having now and teaching people about their careers if you hadn't gone through that path.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:08

No, I wouldn't. Out of those hundreds of people, I probably fired about half of them. Well, let's be honest, like the first half of them, like, I had some may throw Cheetos at me and other things. But like the later, the last, you know, about 150 or so, people would, like... we would basically end up in tears together. And then they would say thank you and we had to hug on the way out the door.

Dave Crenshaw 24:28

Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you just said that. Because that's exactly what I say in my book, in the Focus Business.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:37

Interesting.

Dave Crenshaw 24:38

The one of the most common thing I asked, you know, ask the audience, "What do you think people say when you fire them? If they're the bear and they're making these messes, what do you think they say?" And the word is "Thank you." And the people around you say "Thank you", right? Because that's also part of it. It's not just the individual. It's the collateral damage that's happening with the other employees who are dealing with this. It's a terrible thing. And no one wants to hear this really. But the truth is sometimes being let go or letting someone go is a catalyst for them finding success in the future.

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:11

Yeah. And that's, yeah. What if it were the best thing that could happen to them? Just like it was the best thing, one of the best thing certainly that happened to me in my life, like, what if it was that way, especially if we can, you know, love and support them in that particular way?

Dave Crenshaw 25:26

Yes. Certainly. Yeah. Talk to me about the early stages of what is now your career. What were some of the first steps that you took that led to, would you say that the creation of the podcast was the first big thing? What was the first big step where you were making money and profitable?

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:44

Well, with our organization, Happen To Your Career, this came, oh my goodness, many years later. So we're about 10 years old now. And this is 2023. So 2013, is where it began. And began with the podcast and coaching. And those were, that's basically what we had. That was the business and itself, people paid us money via coaching. And we would help them make ginormous career changes or help them get raises are help them find fulfilling work. And then the podcast became really the catalyst for how the business continued to develop. Because through that source, we started getting feedback from people all over the world. And we started realizing that my experience of having less than mediocre work is a normal experience. And that's what most people in the world have. And unfortunately, even when you look at, I don't know, there's so many studies out there, and Gallup, as an organization does a really nice job of providing a lot of that data. But Gallup has even gotten rid of the terminology they use to use, what they would call a "great job", something that is like really highly fulfilling, like where people are enamored with their work. And they now, it's such a small portion when you read their most current studies, they don't even put it in there anymore. Instead, they focus on what creates a good job, what they call a good job. And that's now the goal, like, we are doing a good job because so few people have great work that it seems almost unattainable. And I, although I love the work that they do at Gallup, I wish that they would not continue to choose that because it's a misnomer, especially today, more so than ever before. So anyhow, to answer your question, the podcast was the catalyst to getting all of the feedback, meeting people all over the world, and realizing that people are having these experiences and that we could uniquely help them, think about this and change their reality in a very different way.

Dave Crenshaw 27:52

How did you get your first clients for coaching? That is usually the hardest part. So you built the Happen To Your Career, but where did the first people come from that actually paid you to get this consultation in coaching?

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:07

That should be an easy question. I feel like I should remember that forever. You know, well, here's the reason why it's a little bit convoluted for me because I was, at that time, my wife and I, we were very focused on me becoming a VP of this organization that I worked for, really wonderful organization, really had a great experience with them. And the goal was, I was going to become a VP of HR for the organization, you know, they flew me to headquarters and everything, we were picking out a house to head down that track, we're gonna have a house built, like, that's how serious we were about it. And then at some point, we realized that our goal was to move to Omaha, Nebraska, to be able to be on the VP track, so that we could then earn enough money and get the resume experience to then come back to Moses, Lake Washington, where we lived. And we kind of had this realization moment, where it's like, this is stupid, like, why would we do this? Like, we're already like, we're not gonna do it for the money, we're already earning great money, or we're going to do it for the resume, like, I don't need more experience on the resume. And so we started questioning everything. And one of the ideas that came out of that is that I had wanted to go back to owning my own business again. And I had told that to the people that had hired me, I had also told them, it was gonna be, like, 10 years in the future. But that accelerated that and we realized, "Okay, well, what's that going to look like?" Well, at that same time, I had been going and meeting with people just for fun, because people as it turns out, when they heard all my stories of career change, and like, how did you get a $40,000 raise here when they said they weren't giving raises or promotions, and how do you go from operations into HR? All these things they would ask, "Well, how did you do that?" And so turns out, I like coffee and they were willing to buy me coffee to tell them how I did that and then share insight, which then they could duplicate. So I was doing that a lot. So I was getting paid in coffee for a while. And then at some point, people started to offer to pay. They were sending me thank you notes and gift cards. And I'm like, this is great. Like, I will take all the Starbucks gift cards you can send me.

Dave Crenshaw 30:24

So people were paying you before you were asking to be paid?

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:27

Yes.

Dave Crenshaw 30:27

Oh wow. That's interesting

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:28

So here's that. I'm the type of person sometimes where the burner has turned and I have to touch it a few times to realize that it's hot. And that was certainly the case here. Because I was having that experience. And we're like, "Well, I could own a business. What kind of business could I start?" And only after that, like the 20th or 30th of these conversations and people offering to pay, did I realize, "Oh, maybe there's something here. Oh, yeah, that could make sense. I'm already doing that." So it was accidental in that way, and very organic.

Dave Crenshaw 30:40

How long did it take you, like, would you guess roughly? Was it months? Was it years of this happening until you finally like it clicked in your head?

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:13

It had been going on for a couple of years.

Dave Crenshaw 31:15

Wow. Okay.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:16

And it was, I mean, this is something I was just literally doing for fun because friends and coworkers and family had asked, and I'm like, "Yeah, I can. Sure. Yes, please."

Dave Crenshaw 31:30

There's a phrase that you just tossed in there, and someone might miss it. But I want to highlight it, which was for fun. And a lot of people who are really successful, I've done these interviews, and I see other people that I've coached that aspect of loving what you're doing is so critical. I'm not saying something that is actually false, which is just follow your passion and the money will follow. That's not true. But what is true is that if you're doing something that you love, and it's fun, it's more likely that it will happen. You got to add the gifts and the skills to that, you also got to add the training to it. And so the fact that you were just doing this for fun, was, I think part of the reason why you were good at it. And part of the reason why people were so interested in paying you for it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:17

I agree. And I think there's something else that's really subtle in there that gets lost. Like if you think about it from a strategic point of view, if you are not having fun, as you said, and if you're not doing something for fun, then when you go to get paid for it later on, then if you're starting out with something that is not fun, it's not going to become fun. Most of the time, it's what are the things that you can't stop doing?

Dave Crenshaw 32:48

There you go.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:49

Is a better question. Like I observed this phenomenon over and over again when I was working in HR is that I would have these conversations where I was coaching leaders and coaching managers. And they'd be like, "Ah, this person is not performing." And I would ask them about it. And what we'd find is that they're exhibiting their strengths, the things that they can't stop doing. And that is manifesting in a way that the manager doesn't believe is contributing to their jobs. So quick example, this guy was pretty new line-level supervisor, if you will. And he couldn't stop going from place to place and like talking. And the byproduct of that was he built really strong relationships with the team, everybody loved this guy, they would bend over backward for him whatever he needed. The other side of that was his boss felt he was shirking his duties because he wouldn't stop talking to other people. And he literally could not stop, we could not have paid him enough money, or dropped the whip on him or any of those things. We couldn't have changed that behavior because it was so innate. And that's what he was having fun with. So he moved on to a completely different job in a different organization where that's what he got to do. And he did. So I think it was like double the pay rate. And he's much happier.

Dave Crenshaw 34:12

Now. It's an interesting story. So you started the podcast quite a while ago. Now you're in the top .5% on listening notes, which is if you're not familiar with it, that's a pretty big milestone to hit. I mean, your podcast is quite popular. What are some of the moments that you think have led to the success that you have now? Like, how did you get to that level with the podcast?

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:37

I mentioned it earlier. But that feedback from our listeners is infinitely valuable. And I think there's two sides to that. One, I think part of my strengths allow me to sift through data really well and sift through feedback and resources and incoming information really well and that's just built into how I am wired very, very much. And part of that is because I kind of, in some ways, not that I am a sociopath, but in some ways, don't really care about what many other people think. There are certainly people in my life where I care a lot about what they think– my wife, I very much care about what she thinks. My kids, I definitely care about what they think, and certainly other people too. But it served me very well in that when I get a lot of feedback, it helps me to pay attention to the stuff that is going to be most useful for the people that we felt at the time we could serve best. And so what would happen is we take those little bits of feedback, and we'd apply it. And we made this show just for these people, essentially. And the funny thing about any kind of marketing and psychology is that everybody wants to make things more vanilla if you will. You've probably heard this example in various different ways. But the tendency is like we get all the feedback, and we do all the things. And then all of a sudden, we have this very vanilla show, very terrible, bland show in so many different ways. And instead, we focused on just one tiny group. And what that happens is we made it for them. But then other people want to come along for the ride. And that's caused it to grow quite a bit over the years. But more importantly, than that, is caused it to be super valuable to a group of people to where they just, I literally had a person yesterday, email me and say, "I will be a raving fan forever. Thank you so much." Like that wasn't something like we put in their head. Like that's what they wrote in the email. And that's the type of relationship that we had strive to create. So that's been a big part of it is just sifting through feedback, but also getting that feedback and trying to serve the people that we feel we can help best.

Dave Crenshaw 36:54

That's got to feel really gratifying to hear that kind of response.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:58

It is.

Dave Crenshaw 36:58

Especially you've been working on it for almost 10 years, right?

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:01

Yeah, yeah, it really is. I feel obligated, I think is the right word and the right feeling to continue to find new and better ways to serve those folks.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:20

If you've been listening to our episodes here at Happen To Your Career and you want to make an intentional career change to much more meaningful work and have it neatly laid out into an organized framework, well, guess what, we actually have that available for you in the Happen To Your Career book. It's available on Amazon, Audible anywhere else where you get your books. You'll learn about the five hidden obstacles, stopping your career change, how to figure out what would truly make you happy with your career. And what brings you more happy more often. And more importantly, how to transition to a much more fulfilling career and life. You can find the book on Amazon, Audible anywhere where books are sold, by the way, people are particularly loving the audio book, which you can access right now in second.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:09

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up for you next week right here on Happen To Your Career.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:15

How can you accomplish goals that require having connections, but not be transactional? Well, it turns out there are easy ways to begin relationships that are genuine and feel natural to the other party. What's the key? Well, it turns out it's stop forcing it. What if we only focused on what's easy for you?

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:36

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.