469: Midlife Career Change: Overcome Limiting Beliefs & Make It Happen

Phillip Migyanko 00:01

Experience is experience. And you don't start over by going and doing something new. You actually take all your experiences, you take all of your learnings, you take everything about you to the new role. And it comes from this scarcity mindset, where you feel like I'm not bringing anything to the table, and usually nothing is farther from the truth.

Introduction 00:24

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:49

If you've listened to the HTYC podcast for more than one episode, you've probably figured out we do things a bit differently around here. So today, you're actually not going to be hearing from me. I'm taking off work for an entire month. Yes, an entire month. Let's back up here. How did that happen? And it turns out that it's actually something that we, as an organization, had been working on for close to three years. And it started out with my wife and I wanting to be able to step away from the organization, step away from HTYC for a month at a time, and have it not be dependent on us. We felt that our message and what we're doing here, the work we're doing here, is too important to depend upon just me or just her. And it's taken us the last few years to really be able to get the organization to the level where we were able to do that. But we don't just want to do this for the two of us, we want every member of our team to be able to step away when they need to, or when they want to. I want that level of flexibility for everyone on the Happen To Your Career team. Because most organizations, well, it's not really possible to do that. Right? What our organization actually stands for is not just helping people make career changes, not just helping people find their ideal career and ideal work. But legitimately changing the way that we do work as an entire world, and also how we think about work. And this starts with our very own company. So my wife, Alyssa, and my kids are actually currently out practicing what we preach, what we teach. And we're combining this month off of work with a trip to Greece, which I talked about, on another bonus episode of the podcast here. So take a listen to that if you want the full story. But we're in Greece right now, if you're listening to this, which means that next week, and the week after, and the week after, and the week after that, the team is taking over the podcast. So you're gonna hear from our entire HTYC team discussing different topics, not just in the realm of career change, but also many of the questions that we get all the time as an organization, those things that we haven't been able to talk about, and even some things that we talked about behind the scenes all the time, but now we want to share them with you. So I'm really excited for you to get to know them because they're pretty amazing and they do great work. So here you go.

Phillip Migyanko 03:06

It happens to the best of us. You wake up one day and you're 40, or even your 50s or 60s, and you feel like you're having a full blown midlife career crisis, your career fields off track, and you realize that you want more, something's missing, then the questions begin. Is it the company culture? Is it the industry you're in? Is it your day to day responsibilities in your current role? Or maybe it's a combination of all of these. You can feel that you want or need to make a change, but then the assumptions and limiting beliefs start to creep in. There are a lot of limiting beliefs that come along with making a midlife career change, which leads to what we refer to as a midlife career crisis. Hi, I'm Cindy, and I'm the Director of Client Success at HTYC. As you heard from Scott, the rest of the team and I are taking over the podcast for the next few weeks. And today I'm joined by Phillip. He's our Director of Client Results. And you've heard him many times on the podcast before.

Phillip Migyanko 04:04

Hey, thanks for the introduction, Cindy. And yeah, our team, we're taking over the podcast. And today I'm super excited to talk about midlife career change, because it's something that we talk about all the time behind the scenes, and it's something that me and you specifically see all the time in working with clients. And you know, I think it's an interesting fact to include in the beginning of "why", you know why people want to make a change at this age. And you see this a lot, it's from one of the books I think you recommended to me, is that right?

Cindy Gonos 04:33

Yes, absolutely. So it's from Arthur C. Brooks book "From Strength to Strength". I was really, really moved by this book. Phillip, you know, I am a person who is in midlife. So this resonated with me really well. But one of the things that he said is there's an interesting set of findings that says that "success early on is based on one of two types of intelligence." The first is called fluid intelligence. This gives you the ability to solve problems, to crack the case, to innovate faster, and to focus harder than pretty much all the competition early on in your career. So this is like your Elon Musk brain. This increase is through your 20s and into your 30s, but it tends to decline through your 40s and 50s. Meaning that you need to move to the second kind of intelligence, which is increasing in your 40s and 50s, and even your 60s, and that's gonna stay with you for the rest of your life. And that's what's called your crystallized intelligence. This is your wisdom, your ability to compile the information that's in your vast library to teach better, to explain better, to form better teams. In other words, not to answer somebody else's questions, but to form the right questions.

Phillip Migyanko 05:37

That's super interesting. And I think I like the part about Elon Musk's brain the most. But with everything that is said, and like Cindy said here, we talk to a lot of people that are going through this mid life career crisis, or at least, that's what we call, it definitely feels like a crisis. And today, we're going to tell you about four... just four of the most common limiting beliefs that we see all the time in people that are in their 40s, and their 50s, and their 60s, and they're wanting to make a change. So even if you're sitting here and you might be in your 20s, your 30s, or in your teens, this stuff is still relevant to you, because this can be stuff later on. And even if you're in that age right now, it's super relevant. And, you know, we're going to tell you about some of our clients who were able to overcome these limiting beliefs, and really find what they love. So, without further ado, I'm just going to go ahead and get out of the way and let Cindy get started. So Cindy, I know there's one specifically that you wanted to start with, what is that?

Cindy Gonos 06:32

Yes, definitely. Because I hear this all the time when I'm having first time conversations with folks. And that is that they feel like they're going to have to start over in an organization, like, they're gonna have to start from the very beginning, they've built up this title, they've built up this procedure in their role. So a lot of times this is about starting over as far as job title and role. But my friend, Dan Ruley, would tell you that job titles don't really matter. So I love Dan's story. Technically, he took a step down when he left his director of sales role for a large organization to be the Senior Program Manager at another organization. But here's a spoiler alert, Phillip, he makes more money and is able to focus on what he does best in this role. So this started off with a conflict between family and work that caused him to lose his job. And he really started to reevaluate his priorities. So he started to ask himself, what do you really love about sales leadership?'' And the answer was always to mentor and to help people grow. He had had a career in sales training before and was really happy. But he didn't make that much money. And that was ultimately the reason why he pivoted into a higher paying director role. And it worked out for a while, but then it didn't. So he went full force back into trying to find a job that was in sales enablement and training. He said the hardest thing was probably getting out of his own way. So he'd spent the majority of his career trying to make sure that he was in these larger leadership roles. And it was hard for him to think about stepping down and being out of an executive leadership role. And going into what still is a leadership role, but not quite the same executive level. With his level of experience, it was a really big pill to swallow. But at the end of the day, it didn't matter because the title didn't matter. Being happy with what you're doing, that's what matters. And now Dan's doing that. He's getting to do what he really loves. He's in an organization that recognizes his skills and his experience and allows him to create success for his team in his way. So now he feels like he's a truly valuable person on the team. And yeah, like I said before, he's making more, he's making almost three times what he was making with a smaller title. And he's not complaining about that, either. So it's a win-win for sure.

Phillip Migyanko 08:46

You know, and that's an interesting thing in there as well, because it's... just to be clear, so that's... it's the feeling of, like, you're having to start over. And, you know, we talked to lots of individuals who feel like this all the time, we have a whole guide about, what do you have to do all these nine steps you don't have to start over? And I think the interesting thing about Dan Ruley's story from what you're mentioning here, and if you've listened to his podcast episode, it's that thinking about this in a larger picture aspect, meaning, that title really wasn't that important to him. And that really thinking about five years ahead, that, you know, would I rather be unhappy for five years in my current spot? Or am I going to go do something different even though that title doesn't matter? And going back to what I am liking before because experience is experienced, and you don't start over by going and doing something new. You actually take all your experiences, you take all of your learnings, you take everything about you to the new role, and it comes from this scarcity mindset, where you feel like I'm not bringing anything to the table. And usually nothing's farther from the truth and that can actually hurt you in the long run but also hurt you in your conversations as well. I don't know if you see that as well, Cindy.

Cindy Gonos 10:00

Yeah, I hear that all the time, Phillip, when I'm talking to folks. I tell everyone the same thing that you tell your clients is that "Everything you have goes with you, you get to take it with you." You're never ever really starting over. And those experiences are the things that make you who you are. So yeah, I don't think that anybody ever really starts over. But it's definitely one of the most common limiting beliefs. Phillip, I know you have a ton of experience with working with clients. Can you tell me a little bit about Michael and his limiting belief that he overcame? I love his story so much.

Phillip Migyanko 10:35

Yeah. So this is Michael, if you've heard him on the Happen To Your Career podcast, he is a great story. But he really highlights the second one of the four that we're talking about. And it's one that I see all the time. And usually, when I talk to anybody, no matter their age, they'll usually wear it as this badge of honor, like "I'm a 50 something year old, and I've got this much time left." And it also comes from this aspect of like, "Hey, I can't afford to make this change. Basically, I don't have enough time, and I don't have the time before retirement, and I gotta do everything I can before I get my fancy watch. And then I go and retire." And that's really kind of highlighted, you know. Basically in Michael's story, and he's really the definition of somebody who could not afford not to make a change. Hear that again. He could not afford to not make a change. You might be listening to this, you might be going "Okay, wait, that might be me. I can't be sitting here in the spot anymore. And I'm listening to them on my lunch break. And now I have to go back in and oh, I can't be doing this anymore." And, you know, his story sounds really glamorous. And I hear this all the time, right. He was the vice president of worldwide distribution, finance at Sony, he loved movies, and he loved TV. And he said that "If you're going to do accounting, do it for a product that you have interest in. And then you'll be excited about the sales and then excited about the marketing. And you'll be engaged in the company and blah, blah, blah." Stuff Cindy, and our entire team at Happen To Your Career hear it all the time. If I just love the thing, then I'll have no problems. If I just love the thing, then I'll never work a day in your life, right? Wrong. He started out as a senior financial analyst in September of 2001. And he could see right away that the more you can handle, the more you would just, they would just throw at you. I'm sure everybody can raise their hand if you've been there before. But at the end, it got to a point where the demands of the job felt like they were 24/7. The work just kept piling up till it was physically emotionally and everything was just, he just couldn't keep himself going. It was literally killing him. And mentally, he was just overwhelmed all the time and worried constantly about too many things. Now, not being able to fix anything perfectly or make anything work perfectly, that was not a good combination for Michael. Remember I said the perfectionism thing. And it was just this constant routine of lots of work, keep going, more stuff to do, perfection and stuff getting in, what's the next big raise, keep it going, get another bonus, keep going and going going. I'm on this trajectory to basically get to retirement and then die. And he had a great team of people under him. And that sustained him for years. And he felt like it was his duty to suffer through this job. Now, I hear this one all the time, like work is just hard. I just have to do these things. And maybe it's just hard, and I'll just, you know what I grit my teeth. And I'll go for another five years, I'll go for another 10 years. And because he wanted to see his team advance, because he really cared about them, and to see them get promoted and take on more responsibility, he stayed. And this is great. And he did that until he physically couldn't do it anymore. He wasn't sleeping, he was eating. Remember I said all the physical and mental and just stress he got on. And like no joke. And if you listen to his story, he even talks about this where he lost 20 pounds in that last year. And he kept telling himself, you know, "It'll get better, it'll get better, it'll get better. It's just the emotional roller coaster" and until he was completely burned out and gave us notice in the beginning of 2019 with no backup plan, he was like, "Okay, it's not gonna get better. I just have to go." Now, he reached out to us, I remember having the first conversation with them. And that first step for him was letting go of the "I have to stay on the path that I'm on. I have to stay entertainment. I have to stay in finance, I have to (insert whatever that is) maybe in your story" and I very much relate to this where I often say for Phillip, "I became the slave to my own ambition." And, you know, for him and his story and maybe for a lot of our people who are in this midlife career crisis, we're saying, you know, they spent so much time there, but if I don't do that, then I'm throwing away everything else. And you know, we mentioned here that if this is... we can't afford this, it's not just afford financially, but it's also afford for time aspect, for opportunity. And that if I'm starting from the beginning, that I'm basically having to feel like I'm starting over, it's very similar to the one that Cindy was just mentioning. And long story short, he had to let go of that belief. That was really, really, really hard to do. And that advice came from his coach Mo. And it was that decide what you want in your life now, like, decide what you want your life to look like now, and lay it out and pick how you want to live your life structured, before you start looking for a job in another company. What that means is that get started now that as everybody in their midlife knows that time is fleeting, and that we have a philosophy and we have really one of our values here at Happen To Your Career, which is one life. And I don't mean to Yolo anybody here, and that for all of us non millennial people, that is you only live once. But really what that means more is that we have limited time. And that we're thinking about the bigger picture is what are you doing about it now, because if you get too far, in a bad job for a long time, it takes so much longer to get out of that, and then actually make the change. And really, that's indicative of Michael's story, because today, he's a mortgage broker and a loan officer. And he says he would never want to go back to sitting somewhere, and getting paid by the hour over an annual salary. And what that's given him is a sense of purpose, a sense of control for his time now, and in control the volume of his business, how fast or slow he wants to go. And most importantly, he can take a break, really whenever he needs. And Cindy, thanks for mentioning that story. I think Michaels story is so good here.

Cindy Gonos 16:45

Yeah, I have to say, as I'm talking to folks, I don't know if there's any one podcast episode that has resonated so deeply with folks as Michael's story. I'll get on calls and people will tell me that his podcast moves them to tears. So I think that it's easy to see yourself and Michael story for a lot of folks because especially like you think about he's got his team underneath him. He thinks he has what he should want. Right? He thinks he's there. He thinks he has it. So he starts to out like is the grind worth it? And I think a lot of folks, especially those of us who are like Gen X, like we grind, like that's what we were taught to do, that's what we were brought up to do. Our parents were boomers, or we ourselves are boomers, you know, or our parents were the greatest generation or we are the greatest generation, you know, just those generational things of you just like work, work, work, work work. And Michael's a really great example of, "You don't have to do that. Please don't do that."

Phillip Migyanko 17:49

Yeah, definitely not feeling like you have to do that and just keep going. And to the point where you just physically mentally exhaust yourself, it goes back to the thing about bigger picture here. But I know that there's another one that you want to talk about that is... we're not supposed to pick favorites here. But I think secretly this one's my favorite. So Cindy, tell me about this one that you see all the time, especially with people who jump on conversations with you.

Cindy Gonos 18:15

Yes, definitely. So I'm going to tell you about Thomas R. Williams. I also don't like to play favorites, Phillip. But I love Thomas's story so much. Thomas struggled with the thing that we all struggle with no matter what age we are. But I think that it especially comes into play as we start to get a little bit older, a little more mature. And that's our self doubt or self confidence. Right? That we're not enough. So Thomas R. Williams knew he had one purpose in life, what God had created him to do and the reason that he was on earth was to play football. So for five years he played in the NFL, he played for the Jacksonville Jaguars, he played for the Carolina Panthers and for the Buffalo Bills. But then on October 30th 2011, he sustained a neck injury. And as he lay on the ground paralyzed for almost two and a half minutes, his doctor gave him a choice. Did he want to walk for the rest of his life? Or did he want to play football for a few more years? Thomas didn't realize that at that moment, but football was just his passion that was going to lead him to his purpose. He was scared but also exhilarated because there was a feeling inside of them in his stomach that told him "The time is now. Time now to transition." And so for him on that day, it was a whisper inside of his ear that said "You're finished." And even though it was easy for him to understand, it was really difficult for him to embrace. So at first he struggled with his identity. He had gained so much confidence while he was an athlete, right? So that confidence came from repetition over and over again on the field. So to fix that identity piece, he had to start gaining confidence doing something new that he had never explored before. And I think importantly, he had never been complimented on before. He had to start looking for the yeses from people who saw what was inside of them. So he told himself, "don't focus on developing weaknesses, go to your strengths first." He looked for careers and opportunities that allowed him to do the things that are trusted people– his advisors, his teammates, his friends, these are the things that they told him that he was good at. And what they told him is that he had been an inspiration to everyone around him. That's how we ended up finding public speaking, personal development, coaching and consulting, and even coined his own catchphrase, Phillip, which is like, I'm just absolutely obsessed with this. He said, "I never stopped playing football, I just don't tackle people anymore." He created a mindset of taking that same determination, the same grit and all of the other characteristics from his football career. And he was able to apply them into the life that he has now. And I think that's pretty amazing.

Phillip Migyanko 21:00

I mean, that's super amazing, especially that quote that you said, of, you know, "I never stopped playing football, I just don't tackle people." And, you know, it comes back to the third point, which is, you know, not feeling enough or not feeling like we are enough. And like you mentioned, every single person no matter their age has the same feeling. But it just has a different flavor. It has a different taste for this midlife career kind of crisis, because it almost comes back to that perfectionism. That was also Michael's story. But even the same thing here. And I'm kind of teasing the fourth bullet point a little bit in here, too, where it's so much around– who am I? What's my new identity now? And what am I going towards? And the feeling of not enough. Feeling like, well, I've only been doing this for so long, I've been in this career for so long. Or maybe you're on the other side that where I feel like I've jumped around to so many places and done so many things. And it really becomes a story that we tell ourselves that doesn't actually serve us and can really hinder, one, the ability to come out and ask for help to join on a conversation with Cindy or myself and then, two, join on conversations but really be able to look for the life that you want to build later because I don't know about you, but I'm never gonna feel like I'm making my life my career that I want if I don't feel like I'm feeling great.

Cindy Gonos 22:20

Yeah, no, I feel that for sure. I mean, and I will speak as a recent empty nester, Phillip, you know this. My husband is a very recent empty nester. And I think that it's that identity piece, right. Even with the other examples that we were talking about, it all kind of boils down to embracing who you are in that moment and knowing that who you are in that moment is enough. And I think that we see that with so many of our clients. So tell me, Phillip, round it out, bring it home, we got one more limiting belief to talk about. So bring us home with this last limiting belief, Phillip.

Phillip Migyanko 22:58

Yeah, so you mentioned the beginning. So my team, our client results team, the team that I lead, we work with people all the time in this mid midlife career spot. And this is one that I hear a lot, especially from this group. And from looking at the data, what stops people for often making these big changes is this when I call this internal identity change, meaning, I can't leave something I know or I've worked so hard for. (Insert) I've worked for a place for 10, 15, 20, blink blink years, or I am known to my organization is blah, blah, blah, this thing. And what happens is, is that there can be a lot of limiting beliefs, or at least mindset stuff where they feel like they can't leave the thing that they've done so much, and go to something else. Now, we see this as an internal identity thing, like I've always been an astronaut, right. And I cannot not never been an astronaut anymore. Or I've reached the point in my organization where I am known as the fixer. And if I go to another organization, will they know me as the fixer? Will they not know me? Or I've gotten to a point where I have so much PTO or so much time off how many I get that same vacation that I do every single year that I have pre booked in this new organization. Will they be okay with that? Would they not be okay with that? And it really starts a couple of things. And one of the things that you might have heard this podcast from Jenny Briggs now, Jenny, she was a research scientist who you know, she loves science, but ultimately hated her job. And she was afraid of disappointing others and giving up on all that hard work that she'd done in her career and losing the benefits of her education, which held her back from finding her ideal role. Hint. Now, this comes back to I feel like I've put so much into the thing that I can't go find the next thing. Now, Jenny here, she wanted to love her job but she didn't. She hated it. And her family could generations of professors too, and to deviate from that path as adds another layer of complexity here. So, you know, what she mentioned that she worked both in the education realm for a while, and as a field biologist, and she definitely had a series of part time jobs during college, they led to some great adventures and learning experiences. But she had the realization through graduate school that she didn't really want this traditional career as an academic professor. And we see this a lot, especially with our midlife career changers, where they're seeing these things are like, "Okay, wait. People are doing it differently here." Or "The person who I've been working with for the last 10 years, they just left" Or she... Like I said, her family, including her dad, did this academic type of work. So she's seen lots of examples of what this career path has done, and what's intrigued her about it, and what she hasn't liked about it. And so she learned really from all of her experiences before that, "Hey, I don't know if this would, you know, best be the fit for me." And it took... long story short, it really took Jenny three years to work through all those fears, all those anxieties, all those things that she did, and ultimately landed her into her ideal role. So really, within here, it's one of the things that Jenny was struggling with was that I've just seen how it's worked for so long, and this is part of who I am. It's bred into me that I can't see doing anything else. And I'm working with clients right now and so was my team, who are... and this is... you might be a lawyer, we have lots of people who go, "I can't see myself being a lawyer anymore. I can't see myself doing these things anymore." And it's a really, really, really difficult script to flip in your head. Anything else to add there? Anything else I forgot?

Cindy Gonos 26:45

No, I love that. And I love the fact that you kind of called out that with Jenny, it was the expected path that she was supposed to go down. It was bred into her to do that. And it's so funny, because I'm thinking of a particular client, Phillip, you and I both know and adore her. But she's one of our older clients. And I remember having a first time call with her. And she let me know, "Cindy, I'm in my 60s. And I don't know what I want to be when I grow up." And she had been in a role for a long time. It was established. She had the prestige. And her heart just wasn't in it. And I think that there's something that's so empowering at any age, being able to say, "I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. But now I get a say. Now I do get to pick, I get to choose, I get to decide what I want to be when I grow up." At any time, at any age, you can decide what you want to be when you grow up. And sometimes when I do first time calls with folks, I'll ask them, "When you were a little kid, what did you want to be when you grow up?" And it's so amazing how you'll see that connection between the things that they cared and valued when they were kids and the things that they still care and value now, and how in some way, shape or form, we can bring those things together, because that's what fills their bucket. Like it may not be that they're an astronaut, right, maybe that's what they wanted to be when they were a little kid. But what we do is we focus on their strengths, and we figure out how they best show up and where they make the biggest impact. And in my heart, I believe they become an astronaut. You know what I mean?

Phillip Migyanko 28:28

Totally. And you know, one of the things that we haven't mentioned here and we consciously chose not to do it, but just to bring it in for a second. Ageism. That's one concern that we hear all of the time. It's like oh, and just to just to validate those fears, there is total ageism out there, Scott's told stories, I've had stories, Cindy I'm sure you have stories of seeing that both on the hiring side, but also feeling that on the other side. And regardless of that, one of the things that we're kind of pointing out here and really, for all of our top four kinds of things, you know, it has less to do with that. And really, at the end of the day, this is what I often tell my clients is "We don't really want to be working with those people anyways, like why would you want to be working with somebody who's going to be like, wait, what's your birth certificate? What year were you born? What generation you're in?" Okay, that's going to dictate all of those things. And I remember working with one client, and that was a huge concern for her. She was concerned like, "Well, I'm a 50 something year old, and they're going to, that's the first thing they're going to look at. And they're not going to do all these things." And how we got around that, basically, was she just created relationships. She just talked to people and she talked to people as people. And she connected on values. She connected on experience. She connected on things that she cared about. And ultimately Cindy, I think that's your point. So kind of to wrap up over four here, I think number one, and you let me know if I missed anything in here as well. Number one is I don't want to have to feel like I've started over. Two, I can't afford to make a change. Three, I have not enough. And four is internal identity change of, how can I move on from something I've been doing for so long to something completely new? Did I get all of them, Cindy?

Cindy Gonos 30:12

You got them all, Phillip. You got them all. Yes.

Phillip Migyanko 30:15

Nice.

Cindy Gonos 30:15

So I guess the big question now is...

Phillip Migyanko 30:18

So yeah, what to do next?

Cindy Gonos 30:20

What do you do? What do you do, right? So easy peasy lemon squeezy. Just ditch those limiting beliefs sounds so easy, doesn't it? Like, no big deal? Just let them go. No, I think one of the most important things that folks can do is get some clarity, right, you need to gain some clarity, really dive into discovering what you want and how you can get it. I think that once you start to do that, then things start to become more real life. You start to like, understand that these things can happen, you really need to just get some clarity. So that's the first thing you can do is get some clarity. The second thing is to promote your strengths. We focus a lot on trades. We talk about trends all the time. So take pride in your experience and your willingness to learn what you don't know. And keep in mind that everything you have comes with you. Every experience, every strength, every skill, everything comes with you. And then I think probably the most important thing that you can do is ask for help. I think that's the hardest thing. And I think it's probably the most important thing. So usually, Phillip, Scott would tell folks to reach out to him.

Phillip Migyanko 31:30

Yeah, but he's out of office right.

Cindy Gonos 31:32

But they cannot because he is going to Greece. So if you would like to talk more about your situation, if you feel like you are having a midlife career crisis, and you would like to talk to another middle aged person who happens to know a lot about helping people get through their midlife career crisis, then you can reach out to me, you can email me at cindy@happentoyourcareer.com you can put "Midlife Career Crisis", put midlife career crisis in the subject title, and then we can connect and we can talk more about your midlife career crisis. Or you can go to the website happentoyourcareer.com/schedule and you can actually schedule a time to talk with me. And we can grab about old school style, like life about midlife career crisis. But, either way, I would love to hear from folks.

Phillip Migyanko 32:25

Yeah, to brag about Cindy, just for a second, she is just absolutely amazing in these calls. Anytime I am getting somebody who is in this stage, who comes to us right from a call, they're usually like, "Oh my gosh, she's great. She knew exactly what's going on." Because like she said, she's a person who's felt these things before and really understands and relates to this stuff. So reach out to ask for help. This stuff is difficult. All those four things, nobody does anything alone. And it's not like, "Oh, I'm gonna get clarity and flip my script." And we spend a long time helping people get their strengths. So don't hesitate. If you're needing help, usually sooner rather than later. And yeah, email Cindy at cindy@happentoyourcareer.com or go to happentoyourcareer.com/schedule and we love to talk to you and figure out a way that if we can help, let's help.

Cindy Gonos 33:16

Phillip, this has been awesome. I love our team takeover of the HTYC podcast. And I think that people might be hearing more from us in the next couple of weeks. Right?

Phillip Migyanko 33:26

Yeah, thanks so much for bringing me on and super excited. I know we've got a lot of different things planned coming down the pipeline. So this is not the last time you'll see either one of us and especially last time you see one of us take care of the podcast, maybe we might kick Scott out of his seat and try something new. So when he gets back from Greece, maybe Scott might sound differently, or you just might hear some other ones. But thank you so much for bringing me on and excited to talk to you all.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:58

Hey, I hope you loved this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And if this has been helpful, then please share this podcast with your friends, with your family, with your co-workers that badly need it. Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Liz McLean 34:15

I tell my clients, every industry no matter what it is, I don't know the topics that they have problems they're trying to solve right now, debates that are happening right now that you can just go join the conversation and that will cause that reciprocal curiosity. And she landed a job that way.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:36

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.