570: Job Search Strategies: How to Identify Companies You Want to Work For

Cheri 00:01

I've been looking on LinkedIn at like different organizations that I think might fit the bill like what I'm looking for, and I'm struggling to find a whole lot of things. I've also just been doing Google searches like to find different places to look into.

Introduction 00:19

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast with Scott Anthony Barlow. We hope you stop doing work that doesn't fit you. Figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that is unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more, and you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:44

If there were only a list of organizations that fit exactly what you have identified that you needed out of your next role, wouldn't that be nice? Would that be amazing? This is the point during a career change where so many people get stuck. How do you find the right organizations? I mean, you don't know every company in the world that exists. So how do you know which ones are gonna fit your ideals or align with your values? And how can you find them when you're sifting through every single company in the world? Well, it turns out there is a way to find the organizations that actually might fit, maybe even lists of them. You just have to do some detective level sleuthing investigating to be able to find those. Let's walk through exactly how to do that.

Cheri 01:31

I've figured out that, like, I really do like being a business analyst and I want to be a product owner, which is just the next step. And it's just what I'm doing in my particular role that I'm not happy in.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:42

That's Cheri Thom. When she came to us, she had recently accepted a job that ended up not being what was promised in the interview, and it made her really, really unhappy. Over the next few weeks, we're going to be sharing Cheri's entire story from coaching to landing her ideal role to getting a promotion. And finally, a 'where are they now' update. In this case, where she now, where she's going to share her career progress from when she began working with us in 2020 until present day. In just a minute, you're going to hear a live coaching session between me and Cheri. This is from when she was working on making her career change, a more intentional career change. Before this call, she'd worked with our team to figure out what we call "must-haves" and get incredibly specific with her ideal career profile. This means she had already figured out the types of roles that she was interested in. She also knew that she wanted remote work, and she wanted to work on a software development team for a website or an app that promotes either mental health, or health and wellness overall. Like I said, she'd gotten really, really specific, which it turns out is the key to successfully targeting organizations, you have to have a place to start from right. So then it was time for her to begin finding those organizations that fit all these elements. That's where she was feeling stuck. Okay, let's jump into this coaching session right about now.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:13

I think that one of the things I want to have you do here... I've read through everything that you've sent over, I've gone through and done a little bit of investigation on my own. But I am going to want to have you kind of articulate some of the pieces that you want most out of here. And I want to ask you a few questions about that. Particularly, so that we can hyperfocus what's going to be best for you. So let me just start off with a couple pieces here. Give me a little bit of background on what you know you want as it relates to your ideal career.

Cheri 03:54

Yeah. So I have been in a business analyst type role for the last probably 13-ish years. And when I started Happen To Your Career, it was because I was unhappy in my current role. And I wasn't sure if it was the role I was unhappy in, like, I didn't want to be a business analyst anymore, or if it was what I'm doing and the companion. So through working with Jennifer and figuring out my strengths, I've figured out that, like, I really do like being a business analyst and I want to be a product owner, which is just the next step. And it's just what I'm doing in my particular role that I'm not happy in. In the past, I have worked in software development, which I loved. And I would like to go back there. I've also learned that I have a passion for mental health for one reason or another. I was briefly a psychology major in college.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:40

Were you really?

Cheri 04:41

Briefly. Yeah. I ended up having a management of information systems degree, but yeah. So it's always been an interest of mine and I would love to work doing software development in the mental health space.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:54

Okay. Very cool. What was your interest in the psychology side?

Cheri 04:59

I have no idea. It's just how the brain works is so interesting to me. And so I did that. And then probably within the last five years, I started doing yoga teacher training, which I absolutely love. But I did a whole warrior kid series. And it's about how to help kids work through trauma and mental health stuff. And that was the part about it that I loved the most. It's just so interesting to me how, like, the psychosomatic reactions to things, and how kids process things. And just all of it in general, is super interesting to me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 05:36

I also find it fascinating and curious what some of those pieces were for you about the idea of healthcare companies. Because here's a couple of things I understand. You tell me if this is true. So you're in a small town, rural area, and in Wisconsin, and I think if I understood correctly, that's part of the reason why you've been looking at remote opportunities.

Cheri 06:05

Correct.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:06

There's only so many organizations around that area. Is that fair to say?

Cheri 06:10

That is absolutely correct. Yes.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:12

Okay. All right. And tell me a little bit about how you've been searching so far.

Cheri 06:19

So primarily, I have been doing... I've been looking on LinkedIn at like different organizations that I think might fit the bill, like, what I'm looking for. And I'm struggling to find a whole lot of things. I feel like a lot of them are based in Canada or the UK. I've also just been doing Google searches, like, mental health software to find different places to look into.

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:40

And it was turned up a few though, if I understood correctly, right?

Cheri 06:43

Right. So United Health has, well, they're always kind of acquiring companies or merging with companies. And they have, I don't know, that the Sanvello app was developed prior to it being a United Health company or before that, but it's a really cool tool, you can download it on your phone. And so I just downloaded it, and I've been looking through it, and I just... I really like it. I like it has a ton of different features. So, you know, not the same thing fits every person. So there's just a lot of different avenues that you can take within it. Super interesting to me. And I think, oftentimes people don't necessarily want to talk to a therapist for one reason or another. And this provides them a tool that they can use to help manage whatever it is that they're dealing with. So I love that app. I think it's awesome.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:29

I just spent a couple of minutes looking at that as well. And I had never utilized it. I'd only heard of it. And that was the extent of it. I didn't even know what it was about. But it was really interesting. And it was fascinating. I think that there are definitely more apps and organizations like that out there as well, which is part of what we get to talk about today, right? Okay, but I cut you off, you're gonna say something else, too.

Cheri 07:55

Oh. I was going to talk about AbleTo, which is a company that they recently acquired, and I don't know a lot about it. But they do... I understand they have an app, I haven't seen it. And I also know that they do virtual care and telehealth for mental health patients. So different avenue, but same general idea.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:14

Okay. Any other organizations that you really were interested in one way or another or had found your way to your target companies list? But maybe you've moved them off for one reason or another?

Cheri 08:30

I was looking at Headspace. Yeah, but it looks like all of their people are on site, or they'll have just their therapists are remote. And I think they're based in San Francisco. So that's not ideal. There was one other one I was looking at, I don't remember what it was. But for whatever reason, it didn't fit.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:50

You've done a great job going through and building out a draft of your ideal career profile. And there's a lot on there. But my question is remote work. Would you say that in order of priority, that is probably the most important thing on there, or one of the things that is a must have that makes everything else possible? Help me understand how you're thinking about that.

Cheri 09:15

So I am not opposed to going in the office by any stretch of the imagination, but there just isn't a lot around here. So I live in a town of...

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:23

Closest major city. Help me understand.

Cheri 09:26

I'm in the closest major city. I think Appleton and Green Bay are an hour and a half. Madison is two and a half.

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:35

Okay. All right. So something, you know, if you were going in, I don't know, a couple of times a month or something to Green Bay, that's not too out far or too far outside of the zone of travel. It's not like you're traveling to Seattle from Wisconsin or something.

Cheri 09:51

Right. And I actually had never even thought of that. But yeah, that would work.

Scott Anthony Barlow 09:55

Okay. So remote work, I think would be really preferable because it would free up many more options for some of these organizations that maybe you're even more excited about or more passionate about. However, from a functionality standpoint, there's probably some organizations around the surrounding area that could be doable if it were not 100% remote type situation. Am I understanding that right? Okay, cool. I went through, and I was looking at your ideal career profile and trying to understand is there anything else here. And some of the themes that I took away from it are that definitely combining together your abilities as an analyst, and I think even the potential that you have to grow in that area, you know, you mentioned product development, and the several areas around that, too, I think that there's a lot of opportunity for growth, especially if you're owning a product or in one way or another, I think that there's a huge amount of opportunity for growth, especially from organization to organization, because the scale looks different. That said, I think that there is also a couple other opportunities in there, as well. One of the things that you sent to me that you said you wanted out of this is to try and answer a few questions, but also, at the same time, trying to understand how to go about searching for organizations, or ideas for searching for organizations that could be a fit. But some of those questions that you had mentioned, you said, "Hey, I haven't been reaching out regarding jobs that don't say something along the lines of remote work or telecommute." You ask, you know, "Should you be doing that the organization's may make exceptions?" Tell me what's behind that question first of all, before I try to answer it directly.

Cheri 11:42

Well, I've never really thought about it. So if I go like on Flex jobs, or LinkedIn, or whatever different site, and I am looking at openings, if they don't say that they're remote, or telecommute or something along those lines, that I don't even look any further. I just stopped there.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:59

Okay, I think there's really two ways to look at that then. So one way is, I think that's a really great way to initially, either filter organizations or quickly identify whether one has a culture of remote work or not. So I think that your thinking around that is very, very helpful. For that said, though, I think the short answer to your question is yes, organizations do absolutely make exceptions. So I would encourage you to absolutely continue being conscious of filtering for organizations that are likely to have that in their culture already, or as part of how they do work already. That said, I wouldn't rule out organizations that fit in other areas that may make an exception for you. Now more than ever before that is happening.

Cheri 12:48

Right. And it never hurts to ask.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:49

Yeah, exactly. And that's exactly where I was gonna go with that. And it sounds like you already know this. It's just a case of let's acknowledge it out loud. Find some of those organizations that you can begin acting on this, and getting to know, and especially, like you mentioned, Headspace is a good example. Yeah, I think most of the way that they've done business in the past has been a lot of on-site based around a particular area. And that doesn't mean that will continue to be the way going forward in the future. And you know, a lot of what you're interested in doesn't necessarily require that you are on-site. Sometimes there are some roles that do. Everything that you've done is not a requirement, at least consistently, necessarily. So yes, yes, yes, absolutely look at those organizations. Let's jump into a few examples, though, of how to find these pieces. I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen on here and just kind of describe to you what I'm doing and why. And we're actually going to search together. That way, you're getting out of this what you wanted an idea of how to go about searching, but also at the same time, then I can kind of show you some of the things that I've found too. Alright, let me know as soon as you can see my screen. All right, cool. So I'm actually just gonna go over here to your ideal career profile. So first of all, I heard you say, you know, searching for like mental health software companies. That was one of the things that you said earlier, right? So one of the things I found is super helpful for searching for organizations is taking variations of different types of words, almost CSI style, and searching for those combinations. Because you might not get it right in Google the first time and maybe not the second time, and probably not the third time, either. But, you know, four, or five, six times down the road, when you tweak some variations, then you can probably get it right. So let's take a variation of that and see what comes up here. So oh, by the way, one of the things that you can do too, is look for suggested searches too so I have my Google Chrome browser on so that it pops up suggested searchers as well. But let's say Mental Health, how about an app since it's a software. That's a more current term that more progressive companies have a tendency to use anyways. So that's going to fit that more progressive type organization is probably going to have more progressive culture, which, you know, that's a far set of assumptions here. But even starting out with words that are more likely to fit are going to be better way to go. So mental health apps, let's just see what pops up here. Okay, so we've got scholarly articles for mental health apps, top 10 mental health apps. Oh, you know what, hold on, that might lead us to a different thing. What if we... Oh, here we go. The seven best mental health apps of 2020. What if we took that and just took that as a search, potentially, again, and said best mental health apps, because that's probably going to get us to a list, or we can click on one of these looks like it was prioritized these 23 mental health apps for stress, anxiety, and more. So here's what's going to happen. We're gonna get a list of apps. Oh, look, Headspace pops right up. Okay, fantastic. We already know about that one. Some of these, I guarantee just if we're looking at apps, some of these are going to be things that are invented by or, you know, coded by somebody in their brother, and they may not be a full organization that is going to be a great fit for you. But there are probably other ones in here too. So we've got Inscape. Have you heard of some of these here?

Cheri 16:26

Some of these, yep.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:27

Okay, the Calm app. Whoo. Yeah, that was really big a couple of years ago, or that's another one. PTSD Coach. Okay, so we've got a whole bunch of them here. One of the things that we can do, we've got the mindfulness app, 10% happier. We can actually go and look for the organizations that fit those. So let's take the, which one was I looking at earlier, let's take the Happify app. Let's see if we can find that Happify app. And then we might have to do a little bit more CSI style work and say, okay, Happify, or we can go find the app itself– Happify apps on Google Play, we can go look at any one of these. So this comes from Happify, Inc. Okay, so Happify Inc., we can now take that information and go to the next step. Happify Inc. Well, it takes us to happify.com. So that's probably the company isn't the same name as the app, apparently. All right, let's go down here. And let's see if we can find what, either a list of their team, or list of careers or jobs. First of all, looks like we have a jobs list right here. Let's go into the team section, it'll give us an idea of how big they are. Okay. We've got a co-founder and CEO. Pretty much all of these are going to have something like that. Head of Happify, Head of Healthcare, Medical Director, Head of Content Strategy, Head of Enterprise Marketing. So part of what I'm looking at right here now that we're on this website, is trying to get an understanding of the size of this organization. Is it possible that they're going to have the set of resources to be able to hire someone like you? Okay, so it looks like they've got quite a bit, quite a few people in their leadership team. That's what I'm seeing up here. So I don't know if this is their entire team, necessarily, but they've got a fair number of people on their leadership team. Let's go over to that job section here really quick, just to get a glance at that. Okay. Happify Health Director of Talent in New York City. So let's see, SVP, Payer of Sales. So they do have some remote for sure. Potential for some remote work. So they list a few different things. So this is an organization that already is doing some remote, for sure, likely is doing remote right now. And there may be an opportunity for them to make an exception. If you found down the road that this is right organization for you, you're right for it. So on and so forth. That's the thinking 17 steps ahead. But that still is where we need to be at, let's not rule out that possibility. We don't see anything saying "We do not do remote work at all costs. We pride ourselves on having everyone under one roof at all times. Because it's..." Yeah, we don't see it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:28

Okay, so instead, we've got a few encouraging signs. And that's all we need at this point to add them to our target list, assuming that we're seeing other things that line up with your ideal career profile, and some of the pieces that you must have or that you're interested in. So if we... Have you heard of this company or this app before?

Cheri 19:51

I haven't, but I'm definitely going to look into it.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:53

Okay, fantastic. Look at that. By the way, we did that in what? Three minutes, four minutes.

Cheri 19:59

I wrote it down.

Scott Anthony Barlow 20:00

Okay, so, but the reason I'm going into demonstrate it at that level really quick before we get into any other organizations whatsoever, is because that's how all of these pieces work. It is a CSI type process where we get one little clue. And then we use that clue to make a conclusion and then continue our search. And then we get another clue, which leads to another clue, which leads to another clue, and potentially an organization. Now, we're probably going to have just as many organizations, if not more, that we filter out based on what you know about what you want. And that's okay, that's actually a good sign. Because you could spend days and months and weeks and years researching organizations, which by the way, if you're not already doing this, something that is very, very helpful as you're researching organizations is to try and give yourself a time limit. And two ways that you can do that, choose whichever one's gonna work for you. One would be to give yourself a time limit spending on each organization, and then adding it to the list or making a decision to not add it to the list and moving on. And like five to seven minutes is a great amount of time for that, or, and you can literally set yourself a timer like you can pull up a timer on Google and say, seven minutes timer, and then that'll just pop up a timer here. And I can go ahead and start it. And it'll sound really loud and annoying when I get to the end of it. In this case, I'm actually going to close it down so we don't get the loud annoying sound. Really, really easy way to do that. The other way to do that is just give yourself an allotted amount per day. And that way you don't go into the whole spending hours and days researching companies that just aren't a fit for one reason or another because it's easy to get sucked into that. Okay, so we've got Happify, there on the list. All right, five minutes progress. We got one other company. Let's see if we can do the same thing again. Let's go back to what gave us a few seeds here. And let's go back to what was it that we used. Was it mental health app?

Cheri 21:59

Mental health apps, yep.

Scott Anthony Barlow 22:00

Mental health app. Okay, we're just gonna search that same thing again. And in fact, I'm gonna put top mental health apps just to see if we can get a few different lists. And even though we're getting a list of apps, somebody has to make these apps which may lead us to companies in the first place. So here we're behind the scenes really quick, just to give you a tidbit of what I'm actually doing here, if it's not already obvious, is I'm trying to figure out okay, how can we get at lists or places where these different organizations might already be found? And what are some of the ways that we can sort of crack that nut? And how can we try it from a few different sides? So top mental health apps. In this case, I just think that this is a super easy way to be able to do it, since I already know that you're very interested in technology and mental health. And we know that there's probably a list of companies someplace on the other end of this list of apps. I gave us a few things, but not too many here. 18 best mental health apps to try and 2020, 10 of the best mental health apps for 2018. I'm also looking at where are these coming from, as well, because that's going to drastically impact the list. This is a place for mom, which I heard you talk about kids, I didn't hear you talk about necessarily, you know, seniors or anything else be part of your passion. So I'm just going to err on the side of what I know about you to try and filter this list really quick here. Let's see best depression apps, best mental health apps for better living, that probably is closer than anything else. Let's just click on that and see what happens here. Okay, so as I scan down the page, I've got a pretty quick list. So we've got Happify, which we've already heard of. What's Up?, which I've never heard of, have you heard of that?

Cheri 23:51

I've never heard that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 23:53

It's like What's Up?, but... We've got MoodFit, Talkspace, MoodTools, Breathe2Relax. Okay, so there's not a huge amount on here. However, it does give us a few less. So what I would probably do is the exact same type of process. I'm going to rinse and repeat. If I find something that's already working, I'm going to continue down that course of action and until, you know, I've been able to add more companies to the list, more organizations to the list that could be a fit or eliminate more of them. Either way is okay. Either way is good. So let's take one of these randomly here. Have you heard of Talkspace? Okay. Does that... Have you already checked that one out? Is that a potential fit? Or that one's more couples therapy, it looks like?

Cheri 24:41

Right, yeah, I don't really think that's a good fit.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:44

Yeah. What's Up?. Let's see cognitive behavioral therapy techniques. We're getting close.

Cheri 24:48

Let's try What's Up? because it's got a funny name.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:51

It does have a funny name. Okay. Let's do that.

Cheri 24:55

Oh, it doesn't look like they're links.

Scott Anthony Barlow 24:57

It does not look like they're links so that's where we have to keep going with our clues. Let's see, What's Up?. I'm not just gonna Google that, I'm going to Google the app too, that way we get something. Oh, What's Up? owns this. Let's see search instead for What's Up? app. Man. That's an unfortunate closeness. When you Google the app I get WhatsApp instead. That's a whole another story for a different data. What's Up? a mental health app– apps on Google Play. So we can actually do the same thing here. Let's see who runs this? It doesn't list a company. Oh, wait, yes, it does. Jackson Tempra. Looks like our first person. Or if that is a... let's find out. Let's go ahead and Google that, as well. Jackson Tempra. Let's see, we've got Muck Rack, we've got Outbrain, Android developer, info on Outbrain. So this looks like an individual then by Jackson Tempra, thought maybe it could be a company name, but it looks like an individual. So I'm gonna say that that's a dead end. And we'll probably move on to the next one. Maybe there's a company there behind there. So it might be worth putting on a list someplace to check out that app and see if it's something you're interested in, because maybe it turns into an organization down the road that you want something to do with. However, for our purposes right now, and just keeping to what's most effective, we're just gonna move on to the next one. Okay, MoodFit. That one says MoodFit focuses on what they call a user's mood fitness. Quick reaction, does that sound like something you're interested in or as a...?

Cheri 26:32

I think it's definitely worth looking into.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:34

Okay, let's look at that, we're going to do the same thing. So this is where I start transitioning the learning over to you. So what are we going to do next?

Cheri 26:43

We are going to Google MoodFit app.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:46

All right, sweet deal. That way, we don't just get MoodFit randomly. And then we see what pops up here, get moodfit.com. Okay, let's see if they are an organization unto themselves. If they are owned by another organization, let's see what we can learn about them. Voted best overall mental health app of 2020. That's encouraging, doesn't say where. So as we scroll down the page here, I'm just looking for other additional clues. That's it. I'm just scanning really quick to try and get a sense of is this something that potentially is worth continuing to look into. User CMS mom, their mom had a really good rating. So that was, I think. Let's see Google Play fitness for your mental health, it's possible that this might be owned by somebody else. So ah, Roble Ridge Software. Okay.

Cheri 27:41

Where have you seen that?

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:41

At the very bottom, it's in very small letters, says copyright 2020 Roble Ridge Software, LLC. So let's see what we can find out about Roble Ridge Software. For all I know, they're like a perfect fit technology health company for you, but maybe not. Let's see what we can learn. Oops, Roble Ridge Software, get rid of that. Type in Roble Ridge Software, LLC, cluster maps, Roble Ridge Software, LLC, apps apple.com. So they probably have a variety of apps on the Apple Store. I'm gonna go ahead and right click on that, open that in a new tab just so we can see if they have very many other apps as well. Nope, they only have MoodFit. Okay, so here's what I would do. That indicates to me that they're probably not a massive organization. They don't appear to... they're the probably the organization behind this. So it's probably worth further checking into. So I would go ahead and add it to your list. And then you can move on to the next one. And then after you've got a list built up, and you have, you know, 7 or 10 organizations potentially on your list, you can start to validate whether they stay on or move off. So far, I think the Happify, the company Happify, you can find the Happify app is probably a good one to stay on and continue checking and probably even reach out to some people in the organization that using the Goldilocks method to learn more about them, and understand if they could give you a good potential fit for the Future. Otherwise, let's add Roble Ridge Software and the MoodFit app and move on to the next one. Okay, let's go back. Okay, so if we had to change our approach here, what other variations might you search? Even though you're gonna be tested when...

Cheri 29:39

I would do mental health software development.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:45

Mental health focus software, fully integrated the EHR, University of Washington, there we go, coding boot camps. That's not quite where we wanted to go.

Cheri 29:57

I've looked at some of these because they develop like EHRs for mental health organizations, some of these.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:05

So anything that since you've already looked at some of these, with what you know now, are there any other organizations that would be going back that appeared to be a fit for one reason or another, but maybe you rolled off the list because of unsureness about remote work?

Cheri 30:22

I think Therapy Notes was one that I looked at that sounded interesting, which I believe was in your search. That's the third one down.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:30

Third one down, Therapy Notes. Okay. That pops up with an ad. Let's see. So they just probably paid 50 cents to $4 for that click. And so hopefully, they're amazing. EHR software for behavioral health. That's cool. From what you remember here, what appears to potentially be a fit and what appears to be a non-fit, or were your concerned?

Cheri 30:57

It's been a couple of weeks since I looked at it. But where I used to work, I worked on an EHR, so I have a lot of kind of exposure to what's going on there. And that's what was of particular interest to me. Oh, here's the problem. I think it's super, super small. But maybe not.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:12

Maybe not. That is hilarious. They have Southpark looking people. This makes me very happy, for some reason.

Cheri 31:21

Because it makes it look like a fun organization.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:25

It does make it look like a fun organization. Yes. So they are not that small. I bet they're larger since they took this team pic. However, we've got some encouraging pieces on here. First of all, there are a fair number of people on their team, they have Southpark looking characters on their page, just amazingly entertaining to me. And on top of that...

Cheri 31:51

Looks like they're in the US.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:52

Variety of positions open. So it's not just one position open. That's another clue to get size of organization too, like, Happen To Your Career, give you an example, we're a relatively small organization, we might post one or two roles at a time, maybe, with the majority of the time we're not hiring directly or don't have roles posted at least. So we've got what 6 roles here posted at just a random snapshot in time. And that means they're probably a small to midsize organization, if I had to take a guess without knowing anything else, just from glancing at the webpage, and the clues that we have in front of us. So this is I think one to add to the list for sure, if you don't have it already. We've got a lot of pieces that line up with your ideal career profile. Plus, I think that's something that you may not have thought of, as well, I know that you referenced on your ideal career profile, part of what you wanted is growth. And you had a few different things that you're looking for as it relates to your personal and professional growth. However, it is many times easier to be able to grow in the... or how shall I say, step into the scope of position in a medium to smaller organization versus like stepping into a fortune 500 type.

Cheri 33:17

Absolutely, yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:19

And then that carries over whether you have a higher title or, you know, you'll get a different level of experience, because it's a small organization. Often it's a lot easier to transfer that to a larger organization if you make another change after that. Right. So I think that those can be a few advantages, just knowing what some of the pieces that you already want to. Okay. All right. So I want to pause here for just a second. And say we've found a few different organizations, a few different dead ends. What do you take away so far in terms of how you can search differently than what you have up till now? So you can continue because our goal here is we need to get a few more organizations on this target company's last, right?

Cheri 34:02

Yes. So one, don't roll out a company just because they don't have remote positions. And two, be a detective. Just keep digging.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:11

Cool. All right. Sounds good. I guess at this point, what would be most helpful? We've got...

Cheri 34:17

Honestly, this is already super helpful. I've just… I felt like I've been running into roadblocks. And so I've never even thought to look at the app store to where the apps are coming from. So that was really helpful. Great idea. And I'm feeling a lot better about this.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:34

I think one of the things that happens for almost everyone that's at this stage where they're trying to align, "Hey, I've got all of these things that I value really highly. And I have an idea at this point of what I'm looking for, but like how do you actually transfer that into reality? Like where do I go to search for that?" And the hard part is, it's not going to work out the same way for everyone. Like, we found an in for you relatively quickly, where it's like, "okay, we can search for variations of mental health software development, mental apps, method, there's probably a whole bunch of others that we can search for that we haven't thought of too." And that said, like that gives us, that's an easy way to get to those lists. And I found that there's almost always an easy way to get to it. It's just so hard to be able to see that and kind of maneuver through it. Usually, it's only a few steps away. But...

Cheri 35:28

I think when I first started looking, I wasn't... I still wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to continue to be a business analyst or in that vein, or if I wanted to move away from something else. I just knew I wanted to do something with mental health. So I think having a narrower focus helps, too.

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:45

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, that's one of the pieces of advice I wanted to give you, too, before we end here is that as you get clearer and clearer on what you want, then continue to circle back or double back to what you may have looked at before so that you can reinforce that you've moved on and reinforces something there's not a fit. Or you can do what has happened here, which you're like, "Ah, I already know a little bit about that organization. Actually, now with what I know, that's something that could be good, that could be worth taking a second look at", because you're going to continue to refine as you move through this process. So great job, by the way. Great work.

Cheri 36:26

Thank you. This is very helpful. Thank you so much.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:35

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest. Take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put conversation in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of health for you, whatever that looks like. And the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with conversation in the subject line.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:27

Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 37:32

It was impacting not only my work life, but my personal life. Like, I was snarky with my husband and with my son. And that's not fair to them. I mean, they had nothing to do with it. So I knew something needed to change.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:45

When your job begins negatively affecting other aspects of your life, like, your family or your health or self-worth, those are usually red flags signaling to you that it's time to make a career change. But then comes a huge dilemma. And we see this all the time. In desperation to escape your current situation, you end up jumping into a new role, a new situation, another job that's just as bad as the one before. Maybe the names have changed, but the situation is not any better, right? So how do you avoid this desperation in your job search and find a new role that adds to your life instead of draining it?

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:25

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep and you get it automatically. Even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week, adios. I'm out.