489: Is Career Coaching Right For You?

Cindy Gonos 00:01

Maybe you love what you do, but you're not enchanted with the organization that you're doing it with, right? Or in reverse, maybe you love your organization, you love the team, you love the people you work with, you love the culture, but the role that you're fulfilling there isn't fulfilling you.

Introduction 00:21

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you feel like you were meant for more and ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:45

One of the toughest parts of the career change process is the act of getting started. Putting the stake in the ground saying, "I need a change." Often the way to take action on this is by asking for help, which can be hard to do, especially if you're a high achiever. High achievers are people who have been able to make things happen for themselves, and that's allowed them to get far in their careers using that particular method. So asking for help doesn't always come naturally. But if you find yourself at a point in your career, where you want to make a change, and you're considering taking action through career coaching, then this is the episode for you. Today, we're going to dive into all the reasons career coaching may or may not be right for you.

Kate Wilkes 01:32

The people that we work with are real people, and their stories are real stories of career change. And I think when you are listening to those, and you're resonating and you're thinking, "Gosh, could I do this myself?" Maybe you're feeling like you can't, but maybe you're feeling like you should figure it out.

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:52

Today, I'm actually not your host. Kate and Cindy, who you've heard on the podcast in the past, are taking over. We've heard over and over from listeners that the episodes that these two take over are some of their favorites. Kate and Cindy are both responsible for setting our clients up for success. So between the two of them, they talk to nearly every person who schedules a conversation with HTYC to identify the very best ways that we can help. They also help people decide if career coaching is even right for them. So they're the perfect people to help you figure out if career coaching is right for you, or if any type of help with your career is right for you. Okay, they get to take it from here.

Kate Wilkes 02:33

Good morning, Cindy.

Cindy Gonos 02:34

Good morning, Kate. You know what's funny is, folks might not know this, but we start almost every morning chatting with each other. Right?

Kate Wilkes 02:44

Yeah. It's like, if I haven't had my Cindy time, it's like having no coffee or something, or no breakfast.

Cindy Gonos 02:50

Yeah, it's our daily thing. So this is gonna be maybe a little snapshot for folks of, kind of, what we wrap about. In the morning time...

Kate Wilkes 03:00

We'll talk. We'll tell you with Cindy.

Cindy Gonos 03:02

So folks, if this is your first time hearing the podcast, which hopefully if it is, you keep listening. But I love doing the show with you Kate because I feel like we can give good information. But we also bring the real talk, I feel like that's what we try to do. We try to bring the real talk about what's going on with careers and career change and how people are feeling and that sort of thing. And for people that don't know, maybe we should tell them, we do this every time, people are like, "what are these ladies?" So I'm the Director of Client Success here. So I talked to folks that reach out to us and are asking the question, "Hey, do I want to work with you guys, will this be cool?" And in addition to helping out with talking to those folks, Kate, you are also our CPO. Tell the people at home what CPO is, what you do.

Kate Wilkes 03:48

Chief People Officer. It's my favorite. We're not big on titles here. But it's my favorite title I've ever had, right? Because as much of an introvert as I can be, I love people. And I love helping people. And so my role here, I support all of our clients along the way, in some way, shape, or form, even though I'm not like super client facing. But you know, I find our next awesome team members, have those initial conversations, bring them onto the team and make sure they're set up for success as well as just supporting people that come to us for help along the way. You may do your onboarding session with me if you sign up to work with us. So at some point, we'll talk for sure.

Cindy Gonos 04:33

Everybody talks to you. What I think it's funny, too, also relate to what we're talking about, right? And folks going from that– "I must make a change" to "What am I going to do next?" We work in an organization where I joke about it all the time when I talk to people, my title just made up, right? Because what it's like, Director of Fun, right? Whatever you want to call it. So it's not the "what", right? It's about what we do, why we do it, that sort of thing. So yeah, so Kate is our Chief People Officer, and I'm Director of Client Success, which means I help all the people succeed in all the things, clients, our team, everybody, all the time. And I know it's Monday morning now that everybody's hearing this episode. And I was thinking about it, and I was thinking about what we were going to chat about today, which is helping people figure out– "Is working with a career coach a good fit? Is that a good way to go about making your change?" And I think that we kind of go, we have to go back in time a little bit before, right? And we got to talk about the stuff before. So I remember Sunday's, I remember the first time I heard the term "Sunday scaries". And I didn't know what it was. Somebody had to define it for me, like, tell me what it was. And when I thought about it, I was like, "Oh yeah, I've had that before." There's this sense of dread, or just discontent, or sometimes not even that extreme, Right? I think some of these scaries, I think if people are dreading their work week on Sunday, that's like, that's bad. But I think there's other times when it's not dread, it's more of a something doesn't feel right, you know, as you're feeling like, "I want to do this." So instead of going from the, "I gotta make a change" to the "What am I going to do next?" The death scroll, right? Wake up on Monday morning. And by lunchtime, you're doing the depth scroll, you're like, "Let me look at LinkedIn. Let me see what's on Indeed. Let me see what jobs I can do that I can switch to" and that sort of thing. What really, people need to figure out and going back to "Hey, is working with a Career Coach good?" We're not even there yet in the conversation, right? We haven't gotten to that part smart, you're not really ready for that yet. It's about asking the question, "Okay. Do I really want to do this? Why?" start with why, "Why do I want to make this change?" And out of all the answers, you don't have to know. But if there's a poll somewhere, just ask the question, "why do I feel this way?" And then start to figure out how you want to make that change as opposed to just trying to be like, "This is the thing. This is the 'what' that I need to do." So I think there's lots of different ways that people can go about how they make a change. And one thing I know, we talk about it, Kate, quite a bit, because you and I talk with all the folks, right? Who are coming in for the first time and they are asking that question, "hey, is working with a career coach, specifically, at Happen To Your Career, is this something that would be a good fit for me?" And there's lots of different "how's" to do this. But I think the other thing that folks come in thinking is, "I gotta make this big, huge drastic change." And they don't, right.

Kate Wilkes 07:50

It's a bunch of little changes. So what you said something about the death scroll, and, you know, we as a team, were talking the other day, which we're promoting Scott's new book, right. But one thing that we did the other day, as a team, is we had a live session where people could join that were early readers of the book. And we were talking about parts of the book. And in one part of the book, Scott talks about the restaurant with no menu. And one of our early readers said something that stuck with me on this call. And he said, it's like, when you go to a restaurant with no menu, Scott says, you know, "it's even harder to make a decision because you don't have choices in front of you." And the guy on that live, said, it's like, "if there's no menu, you're going to think of the most recent thing you had. And you're gonna go with that again." And if you're trying to make a career change for specific reasons, it's like, if you're not careful, you're gonna go out of the frying pan and into the fire because I am thinking about that for me. I made so many career changes in my past without thinking about the "why". And I just leapt from a bad situation, that bad situation, because there was no menu... I didn't have a menu in front of me. I hadn't thought about my choices. I hadn't thought about my reasons or my why. So thanks, Simon Sinek because now I know what to think about my 'why' for everything, right?

Cindy Gonos 09:16

Yeah, start with 'why'. Always start with 'why'. That's what you want to do. And I think even the 'why' is so important because you can make a change that's inside of your organization that can change everything. You can make a complete career pivot– go from doing one thing to doing something totally different. It could be... I always tell folks, it could be right shape, wrong size, right. Maybe you love what you do, but you're not enchanted with the organization that you're doing it with or in reverse. Maybe you love your organization, you love the team, you love the people you work with, you love the culture, but the role that you're fulfilling there isn't fulfilling you, right? Any sort of change. So I think that, make a change. Do the thing. I always tell people "do the thing", like, do the thing, make the change, but figure out how you want to do it, why and then how. So, Kate, we do career coaching, obviously, we work with folks, we help them make career change. But there's other ways too, there's other resources at Happen To Your Career too that folks can utilize to start to figure out and start to learn more about us and what we do and how to do it. And if you're trying to figure out how you want to make a career change, then start looking at what some of your options for how to make a career change are first. So get off of the job boards and start doing some research on "how can I do this?" It can be getting our book, it can be... what else? What are some of the other resources that Happen To Your Career has? This podcast?

Kate Wilkes 10:50

They can send this out in an email after the podcast, is great. You can find it just anywhere that you listen to podcasts. We have a website full of... 99% of those resources are free, you can go through the career change guide, there's just so many things you can do to figure out. We have episodes on the podcast that are about: "do I need to go back to school?" "How to make a career change without going back to school?" because who wants to go back to school in their 30s, right?

Cindy Gonos 11:18

There's lots of different ways. And one of those ways, and specifically what we're going to talk about today is working with a coach. And we were talking about this earlier, because I think she's a funny anecdote, and it's relative. So I used to work in the health and wellness, diet industry, whatever, weight loss industry. And when I would meet with folks to talk to them about whether or not the diet that I was offering was a good fit for them, they would ask me, they're like, "Well, what's the best diet?" And I would always say, "the diet that you'll do." And yeah, and I apply that to everything. So the same thing applies when you're thinking about making a career change, right? The method, the how, of making a career change, it's the one that you'll do. So if that means having somebody to have its accountability, whatever, the gut chat, the cheerleader, when you need a cheerleader, then yeah, having a partner is a good option for you. But there's some really great reasons to not have a career coach. Right?

Kate Wilkes 12:22

One thing I can think of for a reason to not have coaching, maybe it's the wrong time for you, maybe you have so much going on in your life, so many other big changes, maybe you don't have the support. When somebody comes on with us and we start working on their career change, we ask them, "who's going to support them in this role? Do they have a significant other or a spouse or grown children or best friends or whatever, who is going to be able to, you know, they can come to those people when times get tough." One of the things we do is we have a plan for inevitable success for your career coaching. And we make people think about, like, who's going to support them in the tough times? If you don't have the support that you need, then that's going to make this really difficult because you're going to feel, you know, you have your coach, but otherwise you're gonna feel alone and you won't have people to lean on.

Cindy Gonos 13:18

Yes, for sure. And I think that also brings up a really good point. Because making any change is hard. Right? Making a change in your career is not easy. So one of the things that I think that people need to be prepared for, if they want to make a change, especially if they're thinking about having a partner like a career coach is, you got to be ready to play big. You got to be ready to play big. If you want to make a small change, if you want to make a lateral change, if you're just looking for a job because you don't have a job or you want to make more money just for the sake of making more money, working with a coach, that's not going to be your thing. And that's okay, that's totally cool. But for us, we don't play small. When folks are coming into HTYC, one of the things that they're gonna see right away is we are talking about what is ideal. What is your unicorn? Like, can you talk about the unicorn and how we talk about the unicorn?

Kate Wilkes 14:28

Oh, your unicorn is like, if you could wave your magic wand in the air–Bibbidi Bobbidi boo– and get the role that makes you never look at Indeed, that makes you never wake up on a Monday not wanting to go to work, that makes you never have the Sunday scaries and you just are excited to come to work, I'm describing right now myself. That is how I feel. So, which is funny, because I didn't find I knew that until I came to a career coaching company. Hilarious. I'd never knew this was a thing before. But once you find yourself in a role where you are thriving and loving it, and the biggest thing that I see from Scott especially like, you know, when I say, "how are you doing in the morning when we get on a meeting?" and he says, "I am excited about what today is gonna bring." That is when you know, just kiss, you got the right roll. That's your unicorn, right?

Cindy Gonos 15:31

I love that. Yeah. So how about we do this? I think this would be a really cool idea. Just off the cuff. I wouldn't... Scott says on one episode, he's like, "I'm going off the script, whatever it is"

Kate Wilkes 15:31

Real talk.

Cindy Gonos 15:41

Yeah, real talk. So let's kind of just talk a little bit about what folks here and what we talk about when they do reach out, and they have a conversation with me, and they're asking the question of "hey, is working with one of your coaches a good fit?" And that will give people like a trailer or like a peek, yeah, of some of the stuff that I talk with folks about. And some of the questions that I asked and some of the things that I tell them that kind of help them get clarity, because that's what everybody wants clarity on whether or not working with the coaches are a good fit for them. And honestly, I don't care how you do it. That's the thing. When I'm on a call with someone, and they're asking this question, sometimes it's not the right fit for them. And that's okay. And sometimes we're not the right fit for them. I don't care how people make change, Kate, I don't care how they do it. I just want them to do it.

Kate Wilkes 16:35

That's our "why". Maybe it's not with us. We want people to change how they think about and do work.

Cindy Gonos 16:42

So as long as that happens, I don't care how you do it. But sometimes folks, we get to earn the opportunity to help folks do that. And that's why we call our team, the "ETO team", right? Because that's what we're doing. We're earning the opportunity to work with folks. And I hope we're just earning the opportunity to get to do that thing, no matter what. So, when somebody's listening to the podcast, how, I guess start with this Kate, how do you think that most people end up talking to me? How do you think they get from listening to a podcast episode, to all of a sudden, they're on a zoom call with this kooky broad from Wisconsin talking about career?

Kate Wilkes 17:25

Who's probably wearing a tie dye t-shirt with a high bun. I think that we have a unique thing going here where we're not only helping people, but we're sharing their stories. And they are so excited to come on the podcast and share their story with Scott or whoever, because they've made this change in their career that has spurred all of these life changes, right? And I think when you are listening to those, and you're resonating and you're thinking, "Gosh, could I do this myself?" Maybe you're feeling like you can't, but maybe you're feeling like you should figure it out, right? And so, of course we have it everywhere, schedule a call, schedule a conversation, we love to chat, Cindy we'll talk to anyone to see if it's a fit, right? And I think that so people just have that curiosity of like, "Could this really work for me? Is this a possible thing?" And then they're like, "Okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get on the call." And really, we say that's the biggest step. That is a big first step in deciding to make a career change. You still don't know the 'what' and the 'how', and all of that, but at least you're, you know, trying to figure it out. And you are an amazing partner. I feel to work through some of the, like, emotional and the tougher stuff to try to figure this stuff out. Because you're so thought provoking, and you love what we do. So it's like, it's so easy for you to talk about career change in a positive way.

Cindy Gonos 19:02

Thank you for that flattery. No, you're right. And I think there's this weird juxtaposition that goes on when you're listening to the podcast, because I've listened to the podcast before I was on the team, right? So there's this juxtaposition where you're, all the time, you're like, "that's me. That's me." You hear different episodes, Lauren Morrison, I'm like, "Oh, that's me. That's me." But then when they get to the part where they got the unicorn, people are like, "I don't know if I can do that." So it is this weird juxtaposition of like, they're connecting with the piece at the beginning where folks were like, they didn't do the thing yet. And then they're asking the question of "Oh man, but I don't know if I can actually make this change." So they, yeah, they take the big step, right? They take the big step and this, "I'll talk to Cindy. See, figure it out." So some of the questions, I guess, for folks to start to ask themselves about whether or not even scheduling a call with me is a good idea, right? Like, I even take this first step. Because we, like I mentioned before, we are not the career change organization for everyone, right. So there's some pretty glaring reasons why this might not be a good fit. And you mentioned earlier, Kate, and it's about not having support, about not having either a supportive partner, or spouse or family member, or trusted friend, somebody that will support you in this process, because this process is hard. So if your partner is not on board with you making even a career change, working with a career coach isn't going to change that. That's not going to change that. And one of the other things about working, specifically with HTYC, and how we do things is experience, right? You want to talk about experience a little bit, Kate, and how that kind of comes into play with working with us.

Kate Wilkes 20:53

Yeah, we find that we work best with people who have been in the working world for a good 10 years and have started to make, you know, big changes. And then a lot of our people that come to us have, you know, either climb that corporate ladder, and they're sitting at the top thinking, "Oh, this organization the values aren't matching up",\, or especially the ladies, you know, in your 30s, in your late 20s and mid 30s, you're thinking about starting a family or you have started a family. And now, you know, this job that you once loved is impeding your own values, late nights, early morning, tons of travel, all kinds of different things that make a situation not good anymore. And yeah, the experience is like, so many people have had so many changes that they've made in the past that were just so wrong, then we know what's wrong, but it's so hard to figure out what's going to be right, that's where the work comes in.

Cindy Gonos 21:52

Yeah, that's definitely where the work comes in. And part of when we help folks figure out their signature strengths, which if you're not familiar with signature strengths, we'll put a link in the podcast, and you can find some other resources in other podcasts episodes about signature strengths. But your experience, the things that you've gone through, that's part of our process, and part of how we help folks figure out what their unicorn looks like. Now, that doesn't mean that if you have less experience, that working with a coach may not be a good fit, but if you're fresh out of college, I love talking to folks that are fresh out of college, but typically, this is not the right fit for them. But we have other resources for them so that it's right shape, wrong size, right? So can HTYC help them? Yes, we can definitely help them. But it's likely not going to be working with one of the coaches and making a change that way, but we got stuff for you. Right? So if you're listening to this, and you're one of our folks that's new in the job market, or you're not sure, I get a lot of folks that I'll talk to that say, "I know that I need to go to school, I haven't started school, can you give me advice on that?" Working with a career coach, when you are in school, are enrolled in school, not really the best fit for how we do it. So those are a couple things about the experience and that sort of stuff. So reach out to us, we'll give you resources, we'll help you find other ways. But typically, especially when we think about our career change bootcamp, usually not the best fit for them. But we still want to help. We always want to help no matter what. I always tell folks, if we're not able to give you the help and the support that you need, I'm gonna tell you, and I'll try to steer you in the direction of what will help you.

Kate Wilkes 23:30

I'm not just here to take your money and give you a product. We're going to make sure that's the right fit for you as well. And that's why 99% of the resources on our website are free. Because Scott created this company with a mentality of help first, inside and out, we help first.

Cindy Gonos 23:47

For sure. And you bring up a really awesome point too, because I think one of the decisions that people need to make when they're thinking about doing this is, "am I willing to make this financial investment in myself?" Because when you think about working with an expert, when you think about working with a coach, a partner, a trainer, it's definitely an investment. So I always tell folks, "we want to be respectful of your budget." So some of the things that I'll tell folks is, "if you're gonna go into the red to do... No, I will not let you do this." If you need to borrow money from someone or take away from something else that is a higher priority, then working with a coach is not going to be a good fit. But there are other options. There's other ways that you can do it, right? So when you think about working with a coach, that's something that's allowing you to have a partner and having a sounding board and having that support. But it doesn't mean that you can't still make this change. So but you have to be willing to make not just a financial investment, but we talked about a little bit of the time investment too, right?

Kate Wilkes 24:56

You got to be ready to work. You got to be ready to make big changes. And it's an investment into yourself financially, emotionally, mentally, a lot of our people that come to us and we help, have to go to work every day, right? We're not lottery winners here. We're not rich, we can't you know, many, many people can't just quit their jobs and do this in the interim, it takes, you know, several months for most people to make this change. But you've got to be ready and in the right headspace to do the hard work and figure out if it is the right time for you even to do that work before you make that big investment.

Cindy Gonos 25:36

Yeah, time investment is huge. So I always tell folks, if you can't invest at least five hours a week into the efforts of making this change, then this is probably not the right time for you. And it typically does take somewhere between seven and nine months to get that change to the ideal role. Right? So again, it's about playing big, right? We're building unicorns, we're lassoing unicorns, for crying out loud, they don't come...

Kate Wilkes 26:04

Beautiful creatures.

Cindy Gonos 26:05

They don't come easy, and they don't come fast. So if you're looking to make a change, because believe me, Kate, I'll keep it real, right. I'll talk with folks, and I'll say, "Do you have a timeframe in mind when you're looking to be in your next role?" And people will say two months, three months, that's not a real friend. Did you can't lasso a unicorn? Yeah, you can't have a unicorn in two months. Because first, you got to figure out where the unicorn is. You got to hunt it down. Sometimes you have to attract it with a tree, like, there's a whole process, right?

Kate Wilkes 26:37

It's a quest. It's a side quest.

Cindy Gonos 26:40

It is totally a quest. It is. When you're going... I'm calling it a unicorn quest from now on. Yeah, but it's not going to just come overnight. So there's alternatives too.

Kate Wilkes 26:54

One of the things I wanted to say is that some of the people that come on and they get with their coach, they are in a really rough spot at their current role, and they're a dragging, and they have the Sunday scaries, and the Monday anxieties. And sometimes what we do, while we're looking for their ideal role is we get them a bridge role. They are getting that place that they can get out of their current situation and get into something that may be lateral, maybe a slight move up or down. But it allows them to get out of that toxic situation. So our coaches will help you do that while you're finding your unicorn, because the unicorn is sometimes a little further off in the distance, but there are things they can do to help you in the meantime to make your situation better.

Cindy Gonos 27:38

Absolutely. You are absolutely right. Yeah, very often we'll help folks find Well, we yeah, we call it a bridge role. But I always say you still have to define what your unicorn looks like first. Because you can't build a bridge to a place you don't know yet.

Kate Wilkes 27:53

That's right. You're so profound today.

Cindy Gonos 27:57

Thank you. It's all because of my coffee. Yeah. So they have to... And I know we're riffing, right, Kate? This is kind of a riffing, sort of, conversation. So we will make it easy, because if anybody knows anything about when Kate and I get on the podcast is we always hook it up with the resources after the... Yeah, we always give you the resources kind of format in a neat way, all of the stuff that we're kind of riffing on because we're talking about, when folks come into the process, and they're having a call with me and some of the things that we're talking about, and kind of the, yeah, like you said, it's the real talk. It's the real talk about what it takes to do this, and, you know, what that looks like. So...

Kate Wilkes 28:40

I think people have to get honest with themselves when they start this process. Even from day one, you're going to ask them real questions, you're going to ask them things that are going to make them reflect on their whole life. And it's wonderful when somebody who hasn't come in, I haven't always been the most introspective person myself. So if I was coming into this process, you would be making me think big about my entire existence. And that is where the magic happens, right? Doing that introspection and the retrospection and getting deep, really quick, with like real talk and what you want your life to be.

Cindy Gonos 29:16

We can help figure out the "why". We can definitely help figure out the "why". And you don't have to have all the answers. So when we talk about understanding the "why" behind what was driving you to make a change, you don't have to know everything. You don't have to know all of the things but you have to know that you're ready. And if you start asking yourself the question of, "why do I want to do this? Why do I want to make this change?" Then you can get some clarity on, "Okay, now I can start to figure out how."

Kate Wilkes 29:48

I have an example story for you that sets a good example. I can think of 100 stories of reasons why I wanted to leave places but I was sitting in this posh cubicle with, you know, a wall of windows behind me at a large university in HR. And I was one of three team members, right. And I remember sitting there one day, there had been no work for a long time. And I was on Pinterest, planning my meals, I was making my grocery list. Let me tell you, my home life was really well organized because I was so bored. And that was my "why", for making that career change. My boss was an amazing lady, my other co-worker was amazing. We loved each other. The organization was amazing. But I had to go because I was bored off my, you know, completely bored, and I had to have something. If I'm bored, I need to be busy. I need to have things pushing me to do stuff all the time. So that was a big catalyst for me for a career change at one point.

Cindy Gonos 30:53

That makes perfect sense. Yeah, it doesn't have to be catastrophic. In the same respect when you make a change, you don't have to make a drastic change. You don't have to make the most extreme change. Sometimes I'll talk with people, and they'll ask, "Well, I don't want to make a total 180. Can you still help me?" Yeah, totally. We coach on all things career. Sometimes we work with folks, and they don't even want to leave their organization or their role. They want to make a change within their organization or within their role. But the same questions still apply, "Why do you want to make this change? Why do you want to do something different? What is that going to mean to you? What is that impact that it's going to have on you? What does it mean something to you?" When they do get on a first time call with me, you will hear me say this exactly, right. The question that we're always asking folks over and over again from the front end of coaching to the back end of coaching is, "Is this meaningful to you? Does this mean something to you?" When you go to make a decision about anything, you're asking yourself the question, we're asking you the question, what does this mean to you? And if it doesn't mean anything to you, it's not worth doing. So if it means something to you, if you're able to find the meaning in something, you can do anything you want. Anything you want to do. Maybe not today or tomorrow, not in three months, friends, like just so you know, repeat that again, that like this change comes with work and time, and being introspective and investing in yourself. And in by making that investment in yourself, you're also helping to make an impact on everybody around you.

Kate Wilkes 32:44

Oh, yeah. And if you show up for yourself, this goes really well. I've seen it. We've seen all of the success stories where people have decided to make a change, and then shown up for themselves.

Cindy Gonos 32:58

So one step is showing up and scheduling a call to talk to us, right? And start to figure this out. But ask yourself those questions, I'm gonna ask you anyway, before we get started. We ask you what to typeform. We asked you, you know, in some homework, right? Before folks even get on a call with one of us, we're sending homework, because that's how this process works. Right? We want you to be invested in the learning. So one thing that I'll say is when I think about our career change bootcamp, because I think that's probably the most often, the most common way that folks are reaching out, they're saying, "I want to find out about the bootcamp. I want to find out about how you guys do it", you know, if they've seen our career changer guide, they see the nine stages of meaningful work, which is the framework that we use for our bootcamp, you know, folks will come in, and they're asking about that. And sometimes I'll get asked this question, I'm calling out on the podcast right now, right? Because I get asked this question so often, I just want to address it right here and right now. I will often get asked the question of, "What's the success rate of clients that go through career change bootcamp?" And that is not a fair question, friends, to be asking me. I will just say right now. If you ask me that, that's not fair. Because: A, it's the first time we're meeting. Right? And secondly, what does success look like for you? I can't tell you what success looks like. So when I think about the way that we've designed this process, and the way that we've designed this career change bootcamp, the benefit of going through that process and going through that bootcamp, is that by going through it, you're changing the way that you not only think about how you approach looking for roles, defining what roles are for you, right? It's not... it doesn't just do that. It changes your mindset and how you think about doing work in general. The role, the change will come, right? But it's about... is it meaningful? And it's about getting that mindset change. The intention of the bootcamp, obviously, people want to make a career change. But career change looks different for everyone and success looks different for everyone. So everybody comes with a different story, with a different background, with a different motivation. Everybody's coming with their own unique version of themselves. And when we are also going through this process, it's about figuring out who that is, and what that is. So the other thing I'll say is, if you don't want to know who you are, it's not the best thing for you. But in the same respect, success looks different for everyone, and how it's going to look different for everyone. So those are the things like went through the career changer guide. Tell them what they can do, Kate. Tell them something.

Kate Wilkes 35:50

It's like a couch to 5k, right? If you stand up and get off the couch, that's a step. You're lapping everyone who's sitting on the couch already. So we're gonna give you some resources. We love to share resources. The first thing you can do, if you are not even sure if career change is right for you, we just wrote a book. And I'll say "we" because Scott says "we" because we helped, right? We hope it'll be possible. So go to happentoyourcareer.com/book, it's going to get you thinking, you can go to our website– happentoyourcareer.com. There's a Resources menu button at the top, and so many free things in there that you can get started. But also, I would like to invite you to go to happentoyourcareer.com/schedule if you are, like, dying to schedule your chat with Cindy. That's a big step. But also, some people are scared or timid or afraid of even just doing that first step, you could email myself or Cindy, it's kate@happentoyourcareer.com or cindy@happentoyourcareer.com, either one. Come into our inbox, put 'More Info' in that subject line, and we will hook you up. Tell us a little about your situation. I would prefer personally to do that over email. So if that's your jam, just tell us a little bit about your situation, we'll hook you up with resources. If you know you want to make a change, but you're scared of making an investment, we can tiptoe into that discussion or whatever. But yeah, just take one step, whatever that best first step looks like for you, we're here.

Cindy Gonos 37:20

I love that. Hey, this has been awesome as always.

Kate Wilkes 37:23

As always.

Cindy Gonos 37:26

All right, my friend, I'll talk to you later.

Scott Anthony Barlow 37:33

Most of the episodes you've heard on Happen To Your Career showcase stories of people that have taken the steps to identify and land careers that they are absolutely enamored with, that match their strengths, and are really what they want in their lives. If that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that's awesome. And we want to figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest, take the next five seconds to open up your email app and email me directly. I'm gonna give you my personal email address– scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And when you do that, I'll introduce you to someone on our team who you can have a super informal conversation with and we'll figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like, and the very best way that we can support you to make it happen. So send me an email right now with 'Conversation' in the subject line. Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Speaker 3 38:31

I really felt like my insides were screaming at that point, like, you have to get out of here. You are not doing what you were put here to do.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:42

Have you ever looked at your work calendar or to-do list and thought, "I don't want to do one single thing on this entire very long list." You might think this is normal that you should just put your head down and push through. But actually, if you experienced this over and over for a long period of time, it's pretty likely a red flag that you're not working in your strengths and it's time for change.

Scott Anthony Barlow 39:10

All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.