242: Reverse engineering impossible situations with Karenina Jahnigen

Karenina Jahnigen 00:01
And when I was able to do that, I just realized, like, this is what I'm supposed to do in the world. This is what I'm supposed to be helping people with.

Introduction 00:12
This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what it does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:36
This is Scott Anthony Barlow, and you are listening to Happen To Your Career, the show that helps you figure out what work fits you by exploring other stories. We bring on experts like Danny Rubin, who teaches people how to hack their careers by writing well, or people that have pretty amazing stories like Lisa Lewis, who has done nearly every type of job you can think of from manning the makeup closet at a fashion magazine all the way to digital marketing, and a whole bunch in between. These are people just like you, they've gone from where they are, to what they really want to be doing. And today's guest is Karenina Jahnigen.

Karenina Jahnigen 01:12
Wow, well, I work with really resourceful risk takers in business, who are... they have track records of success and they have had maybe a series of smaller experiences, or they've had a larger experience, which has left them feeling like in an unwanted situation, and they're feeling stuck, trapped, or sometimes even totally paralyzed. And what I help them do is I help them break out of that state so that they can let go of everything that isn't working for them anymore, and really embracing and integrating things that are working so that they can move forward more smoothly and get to their goals.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:06
So you untrap them?

Karenina Jahnigen 02:08
Yes, I help them get completely unstuck. I help them rebound, essentially.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:14
You know what, maybe it's not funny, maybe it's only funny to me, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Is that, for something like that, our society seems to have a difficult time putting a title to that or putting it in a box. So I know everybody always wants to like, "Hey, what's your title?" So I have a title for you, it's... you're an untrapper.

Karenina Jahnigen 02:39
An untrapper. Oh, I like that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:43
I don't know what that necessarily means to anybody else, but it means something to me.

Karenina Jahnigen 02:49
Right. Well, I'm writing that down.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:52
Alright, so you are a professional untrapper. But here's the thing, being familiar with a bit of your work, and actually, ironically, also, the way that we met, here's a little behind the scenes for everybody, the way that we met, you and I actually worked with the same person, I won't go too much into detail there necessarily., but he introduced us, and having the pleasure of working with somebody that you've worked with, and knowing just how many amazing things and how working with somebody who's been untrapped and unblocked, it's a rather amazing experience seeing people on the other side of that, and it's super, super cool. And it's been so fun to be able to see the product of that.

Karenina Jahnigen 03:35
You're putting it very beautifully and it makes me really happy to hear that the results speak so loudly for themselves. Because it really is an incredible experience. It's probably the reason that I do what I do is because it is so satisfying to me to see someone who is really resourceful, but they're feeling really trapped by things that have happened to them, kind of, the emotional wounds that come as a result of being out there in the world pursuing your goals, and not necessarily making it every time, making it often but not all the time. And then seeing that progression from them being stuck to unstuck and not only unstuck, but they are on fire, and then...

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:29
On fire is definitely the right... that is the right verbage.

Karenina Jahnigen 04:34
And just it's so satisfying to me to see that they're going from completely stuck at zero to 100 in a very short period of time.

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:46
That is super cool. And I know a little bit about your story. But I'm also super curious about some parts because you obviously haven't... or you didn't, like, come out of the womb untrapping people, right. So I'm curious, where does this trail back to what got you set down this path if we go way back, what did your career start out as?

Karenina Jahnigen 05:06
Well, since we're talking about way back, because that's really where it started. I was born in a beautiful town in Santa Cruz County in California, I was born by the beach, and I grew up above the Arctic Circle in Norway. And from a very early age, I got to experience what it feels like to feel very different from everyone around me. And because above the Arctic Circle in Norway, Americans were complete aliens. And I'm also half indigenous Norwegian, indigenous Scandinavian. So I'm half Sámi. And those weren't particularly popular either. So I came up to about the Arctic Circle to the city called Troms when I was six, and I noticed how I was very much alive and outgoing. And that wasn't necessarily accepted there. So I needed to start modifying in order to survive, this was my experience. In order to survive, I needed to start modifying who I was being on the outside, versus how I was truly feeling on the inside. And if you can imagine, that can create some disconnect between what's happening in your life and what's happening in your mind. And over time, my experience was reinforcing that I needed to do something that was out of the ordinary because I could not fit in with the, quote unquote, ordinary people around me. And I had this growing sensation in me that I was meant to create something big in this world. And I couldn't necessarily put my finger on it. But that's what essentially was driving me. And I didn't know where, I didn't know how, I didn't know any of the details, all I knew was I was put here for a reason and I was on a mission. My mission is to find out what it was that I was going to contribute to this world. And I knew that it wasn't in accounting, or plumbing, or, you know, any kind of, quote unquote, ordinary job, it was something else. So along the way, I was also diagnosed with ADHD, and I developed an incurable medical disorder. Still incurable, but I've figured out ways to heal both of these conditions. And when I was able to do that, when I was tired of hearing the doctors say, "Karenina, you're just gonna have to live with these conditions, there's nothing we can do." I became so determined that I basically reverse engineered both of my conditions, when off medications, and build myself back up the way that I wanted to be. And when I was able to do that, I just realized, like, this is what I'm supposed to do in the world. This is what I'm supposed to be helping people with. Reverse engineering impossible situations, and then re engineering live people the way that they're meant to be.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:45
So you're not just an untrap, but you're a reverse engineer untrapper. This is getting complicated.

Karenina Jahnigen 08:52
I think you're gonna have to pick one of them.

Scott Anthony Barlow 08:54
Oh, my goodness, don't force it into decision. I don't know if I'm ready for that yet. I'm super curious then, aside from the doctor, basically giving you an ultimatum, and you accepting that as a challenge is what kind of what I'm hearing., what else led to you decide "No, I'm gonna figure this out. Like, I'm not accepting this. I'm going to figure that out."? I'm guessing that was over a period of time and not just one instance. Or was it?

Karenina Jahnigen 09:19
Absolutely no. I think it was a slow buildup. So I developed my condition when I was 15. And I was hospitalized so many times, I think I've counted that I've spent, you know, at least three to four months total of my life in hospitals and doctors offices. I've had over 90 surgeries and surgical procedures. And there was just times when I was so fatigued and tired of being trapped in a body that was not working alongside with my mind and how I saw myself. And I had interests, I was very active on top of all of this, I was growing up, I was active in all kinds of sports from downhill skiing to judo, gymnastics, and even sang solo and this cathedral in Norway. And when I got sick, it didn't make sense to me how I could be so happy and passionate about life living and being active, and then being trapped in the body that was essentially fighting me. So over time, and of course, then I should say, this is coupled with all the symptoms of ADHD, which, you know, had to do with me not wanting to focus on one thing, or being hyper focused on one thing, I mean, I've later learned how to use those things to my benefit. But growing up, there was... I didn't have an off switch and I was all over the place. So it was kind of this feeling trapped by my situation and having that discrepancy between my insides and my outside world that really grew this very powerful feed, or this tree inside of me, this tree of wanting to change. And so I had that reinforced over, you know, about 10 years or so before 10 to 12 years before I decided that now, I needed to make a change.

Scott Anthony Barlow 11:26
That is super interesting. I'm curious about something that you mentioned. I'm also curious your thoughts on this too, just knowing your background and experiences as well. But with ADHD, and I don't have ADHD, but I do have ADD. And I have found it in many ways to actually be just incredibly infuriatingly frustrating. And then in the same token, later in life, I've actually found it to be a huge gift as I stopped fighting against it and started working with it. And something you said about ADHD is I learned how to, you didn't say work with it, you said something else, and I didn't write it down. But what do you even mean by that in the first place? And then secondarily, how did that happen?

Karenina Jahnigen 12:15
Okay, so I said, use it to my benefit.

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:18
Yeah, that was it.

Karenina Jahnigen 12:19
Yeah. So just like what you said, once I stopped fighting it, then it was much easier to start using the aspects of it that would, later on, caused me to become really, really good at what I do, because part of my ADHD, then everyone's ADHD and ADD is put together differently, we all have very different symptoms, but because it's kind of a broad diagnosis for many, many symptoms, and it's put together very differently in each of us because we also have our individual biochemical makeup, we have our own habits, and backgrounds, and eating patterns, and things that definitely impact the symptoms. So for me, once I started, I think the most important aspect of me, healing my ADHD and then having access to using some of my symptoms to my benefit, was actually letting go of all the emotional baggage surrounding the symptoms I had. The shame, the guilt, the frustration, once I started letting go of those things, my symptoms decreased. And it was easier for me to use what previously... I have kind of OCD tendencies, I can get very obsessive about things, and I get very hyper focused on things. And once I let go of the baggage and the shame, I was able to start using that to become extremely good at what I do. And I started obsessing about finding out how can I engineer my life with my mind and my body to become the way that I want it to. So removing the baggage and then embracing the symptoms and using them to my benefit was one of the most fun part, but also one of the best accelerators for my success.

Scott Anthony Barlow 14:33
I find that just incredibly interesting because I look at those things, and we haven't talked a lot about this on the podcast, I'm now just realizing, which makes us even more fun, but I look at those things as a, I guess you could say a gift or you could say it's just, you know, it's part of who you are. And I think in a lot of ways, once you stop fighting against it, it seems like it's such an advantage because a lot of those things, and it's a drastic range, as you pointed out, but they allow you to think and be differently in some cases than every other human being on the planet. But that's true for everybody in different ways and I think that that's okay.

Karenina Jahnigen 15:17
I agree. I mean, it's definitely different. And everyone has access to these ways of being that accentuate people with ADD and ADHD. And I think once people with ADHD, and ADD let go of a lot of emotional baggage that they're carrying around their symptoms, they become more like others. But still, they have access to perhaps a little higher capacity of creativity, perhaps a little higher capacity of work and output, and perhaps a little higher capacity to juggle things, and manage many, many things.

Scott Anthony Barlow 16:00
Okay, so jumping back here for half a second, because you discovered or began really experiencing this at 15 and then fast forward, you began looking at this completely differently, because you were unwilling to tolerate the answers that were given to you. And ultimately, that led you beginning to move down the path of, "Hey, how can I embrace this? How can I let go of the things that are holding you back and then embrace this?" So as you started down, what happened from there?

Karenina Jahnigen 16:29
Oh, that was a beautiful roller coaster ride. Well, because there were so many highs and lows, and what I mean by that is, when I made the decision, when I made the decision to change my life, to change my body, to change my career to change everything, every time I found an answer, I would have this celebration, and sometimes two weeks or sometimes longer, or sometimes even shorter periods of time, I would go on the downhill in the roller coaster ride because I thought I knew what I was looking at and I realized that, "Oh, maybe it doesn't work this way." For example, I was so happy when I finally diagnosed with ADHD, I was so happy, because it explains so many things. But then after a while, that label that had been my life raft, keeping me afloat, then became my anchor, and kept pulling me down. So I thought very many times that, "Oh, I figured it out." And then a little bit further down the line, I realized though, "No, I hadn't figured it out quite the way that I thought." So it was a really interesting experience of just finding information, applying it, failing, later on, you know, tweaking it, and then re-iterating the whole process, and finally succeeding. So it was up and down in many areas of life. Because remember, I was doing this not only with my ADHD, which is largely mental, emotional, but also living with a chronic condition. So I was doing this on multiple levels. I was looking at everything that was happening to me mentally, emotionally, physically. And then later on, this became kind of a spiritual practice as well.

Scott Anthony Barlow 18:34
Very cool. At what points along the way did you start realizing or did you start impacting other people with it then like, where does that begin for you? Because I'm guessing like, hey, clearly, this is, you know, these stages are fantastic. Boom, let's start charging for this. Like, obviously, people are coming in the doors and shot in the dark, probably didn't happen that way, right?

Karenina Jahnigen 18:58
No, but almost.

Scott Anthony Barlow 19:00
Oh, really? Now I'm super curious. Oh, throw a curveball. I see how you are.

Karenina Jahnigen 19:06
Oh, yeah. So yeah, I think many people are the same way as I am. I also learn by teaching. Whenever I have a big discovery or epiphany, I am so excited about it, that I kind of stand out amongst people energetically and I somehow attract people who also need that help, and who are also looking for those answers. I should say that aside from ADHD, aside from my medical condition, I was also studying. I was very passionate about sales and service from a young age. There's just something really near magical to me, and I know that's a big word, but there's something about being able to serve someone and see their reaction with pleasure that was really enticing to me. So I started with sales and service at a young age, and that went into communication through project management, and then later on communication management. And as you might remember, I said I was very active growing up, then used my background in fitness, and project management and communication management to start coaching people in my 20s. And I didn't know what that was going to look like in the future, but all I knew is that I've lived in a body that hasn't worked for big periods of time and I was really grateful for all the activities I was able to do when I was able to do them. And I also saw what providing service did for me and the other person. And I was really committed to helping people have positive experiences. So I started... When I started seeing clients, I actually started off as a personal trainer, where it was also able to start teaching some of the concepts that I had then discovered over time of dealing with my own issues. And I, alongside with personal training, I started studying something called Neuro Linguistic Programming.

Scott Anthony Barlow 21:29
Yeah. Why did you start studying that? I'm curious.

Karenina Jahnigen 21:32
Oh, why? Okay, so one of the things that really made a huge difference for me in my journey of dealing with some of the symptoms of ADHD early in my 20s and, you know, living with my condition was actually personal growth. And more specifically, you know, I started at a very early age with that my dad handed me a book called "Awareness" by Anthony de Mello, when I was 16. And that's when I started learning about how to live with pain. Although the book was more directed toward emotional pain, I figured out ways to apply that in my physical life. But also, I went to Tony Robbins, when I was in my early 20s, which completely changed my life back then. And when I learned that what Tony Robbins uses is NLP, I later went, "I need to be able to convey messages as powerfully as him." And that's why I studied NLP.

Scott Anthony Barlow 22:36
Very cool. I'm always curious why people do things. So that's part of why I was asking. However, so you then began studying NLP?, what was that like for you? Or how did you find that that benefited you? Or other people then? No pressure. Like, 17 hour answer, I'm sure, like, you can do that in 30 seconds. No, I'm totally kidding.

Karenina Jahnigen 22:58
Well, I think I realized I just had that big sigh because it had such a tremendous impact, not only on me directly, but on people around me, and very soon to come, clients– paying clients. I would say, that through my studies of NLP, that was when I was finally able to really let go of the things that were holding me back, like really get to the bottom, to the core of some of the things, the patterns, the beliefs, the emotional baggage, that was preventing me from having a powerful of progression as I could have had sooner. And I had a complete transformation in my process of becoming a master practitioner of NLP, which, from the beginning, till then it took two years of intense studies. An application in real life simultaneously. So when I became a Master Practitioner, when I was graduating from my training, I put my condition in remission for the next year, as a result. And when I did that, I had so much energy, you know, my mind was blown, my body was healing, I could not keep my mouth shut. I was telling people about what I had just experienced. And all along the way, I help people quit smoking in less than an hour using some of these powerful tools that I learned, these techniques, these processes. People were quitting smoking, they were losing weight. People started coming to me for everything from relationships to business management and productivity. And I was continuing to heal my own body and create fantastic results. I even started powerlifting and after five weeks of training, I broke a record. And in a meet. And I was just experiencing all these amazing events that came as a result of me just applying what I had learned in my life. And I couldn't keep my mouth shut about it. So of course, I started attracting a lot of people who were like, "Can you help me with this? Can you help me with this physical issue? Can you help me with this relationship issue? Or this money?" Oh, yeah, money issue. I've helped a lot of people with that, too.

Scott Anthony Barlow 25:32
In what way? When you say the money issue, like what do you mean when you say that? Lots of things jumped into my mind. So I'm curious.

Karenina Jahnigen 25:39
Yes. So while I definitely don't have, you know, I'm not necessarily the person who best balances checkbooks. But I have been able to help several people with their mindset around money, helping them change their relationship to money, how they feel about money. And I've seen some pretty wild things happen as a result. One of my clients, as a result of our VIP process together, she went home, she flew back home and within, I think it was like four months, she increased her revenue with 58%. And it all came down to, and she'll say this to herself, it all came down to her changing her beliefs about money.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:25
Very cool.

Karenina Jahnigen 26:26
And it's the same with several other entrepreneurs who just once they changed their relationship with money, they just pursued different clients. And suddenly, one of them went from being a ghostwriter for business owners and people who wanted to write novels to now being a celebrity ghostwriter with actual rock star clients. And she says, it's just because she shifted her mindset and her belief around money.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:55
This is, for me, fascinating, because, well, this is the kind of stuff I love to talk about, as it turns out, and at the same time, I know that the types of people that you've worked with in the past, especially more recently, are what I would call high performers, a people that have a track record of success, and have a pattern of past success, that are trapped for one reason or another. And I'm super curious, what are some of the biggest things that you see that hold them back? What are some of those biggest stoppages? And I know that that's probably a baited question a little bit because I know, there's probably many different things. However, what are a few of the things that you see either most commonly?

Karenina Jahnigen 27:40
Okay, great question. It is, if you think about human beings, or the human mind, it's kind of like software. And when a high performer who has been experiencing a tremendous amount of success, suddenly is no longer experiencing that success or the same momentum or for whatever reason, they're feeling stuck, it's usually as simple as the operating system being outdated, meaning, the patterns, the habit, the beliefs that make up our operating system, they have bugs in them. And it's not as big of a deal as it feels like because when you're stuck yourself, it feels like, you know, your whole world is falling apart, and you start questioning, "What's wrong with me? Or how could I make this mistake? How is this possible? You know, look at my track record, how did I end up here when I had all these successes in the past?" Well, it's because the things that you were doing in the past, they were working for who you were in the past, but your operating system is outdated, you have grown, you have evolved, so the same strategies are no longer working. And we also just like every other piece of software out there, we accumulate bugs. I mean, they're just processes that need upgrading. And we need to debug, essentially. So to translate that into what that means, I've mentioned beliefs and habits and patterns. So when I'm meeting with high performing clients who are feeling stuck, I start looking for what specifically isn't working, and why isn't it working? So let's say that a client comes to me and says, "I used to be on fire in sales. I used to pursue clients with ease. I used to go after clients. I used to really pursue them a follow up." And for some reason, I'm not doing that anymore." Okay, well, the simple thing, you know, it sounds very simple, but why not? "What are you doing instead? And why are you not doing what you say you want to do?" And then we start looking for the bugs in that area. And believe it or not, even though it sounds so simple, a lot of really interesting things come up when you start asking, "Why am I not doing what I say I want to do?" And that's where we start uncovering bugs.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:31
So what's an example of that? I'm super curious. What's an example of those things that come out? Tell us a client story that you can share. I'm on edge, I'm like leaning forward towards the microphones like...

Karenina Jahnigen 30:43
Okay, so kind of rewinding back just a tiny bit to operating systems. So our operating system is basically, our unconscious minds, mostly. And our conscious mind does a small percentage of that. I'm sure you guys have heard, like the myth that we only use like 5 or 10% of our brains. That is not true.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:08
That is one that is circulating out there.

Karenina Jahnigen 31:10
Yes, it's hilarious. But I get it, because what they're actually referring to is that the conscious mind only is connected to about 5% of the brain, everything else is our unconscious mind. So our operating system is a combination of our conscious mind and our unconscious mind. And we form our paradigm for what we believe to be real in this world by the time that we are eight years old. What that means is that we have solidified, by the time we're eight, an image of how things in the world work. And when we then later on in life, so that means that we're building our entire worldview, on top of a paradigm that was solidified by when we were eight, which means that there are some beliefs in there. For example, men are bad, we make up ideas like men are bad, or women are bad, or asking for what I want is scary.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:19
That's an interesting one, having little kids, too, like being conscious of saying "no", and having repercussions for people, for our kids asking for what they want. That's something that's constantly on my mind, especially since I have some less than eight year olds.

Karenina Jahnigen 32:33
Yes, exactly. And it's so interesting. I mean, didn't use to interest me that much before. But after I started studying the mind, children have become absolutely fascinating to me. Because they are constantly experiencing the world through their nervous system. They're learning about everything new, they're learning about hot, they're learning about cold, they're learning about people, they're learning about animals, pain and pleasure. And they're creating ideas and that are forming belief that actually will, in many cases, remain true until later on in life when that belief is challenged. So that's where it comes, let's say, this person that way, this hypothetical person comes to me and says, oh, well, you actually asked for a real case. So I did have someone who was challenged in sales suddenly. And we went exploring, of course, through elicitation process in really looking for where are you stuck. And we did find that at pre eight years old, he had had an experience of of asking for he wanted, and the reaction of the mother, who was probably going through her own emotional stress at the time, she had rejected him, not giving him what he wanted, because of the intensity of the situation that had essentially wired into his nervous system, this fear of asking for what he wanted. Now, what's interesting is that in very many cases, those experiences, they just kind of get stored in our nervous system deep down in our unconscious minds as well. And they don't come to the surface again. However, later on in life, this person was in his late 20s when he came to me. Later on in life, he had experienced a set of other stressors that had caused him to just feel overall more stressed in life. And then when he had gone into negotiate him being in a stress state, he had actually, the situation of the negotiation along with his stresses, other places in life had actually recreated a very similar experience to him physically now as back when before he was 8. Am I making sense?

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:03
No, this is totally making sense.

Karenina Jahnigen 35:11
Because of the stress levels that he was currently experiencing, that were similar physiologically as when he was younger, that triggered this belief that he couldn't have what he wanted. And so unconsciously, he was then running this triggered belief that I can't have what I want and if you have that running at the back of your mind, when you're negotiating, what do you think is gonna happen?

Scott Anthony Barlow 35:37
It's not gonna be good.

Karenina Jahnigen 35:44
Because the human mind is wired for, because this is how we... only way that we can actually process information is by generalizing the information, deleting the information that we don't need and distorting it to save it in our mind, the only way that you can be when you're in that negotiation state, if you're running a belief that you can't have what you want, is to find evidence of that to be true. So that means that if you go into negotiating, running a belief that you can't have what you want, your mind is going to look for evidence that it cannot to reinforce that belief. That's just how we work, the human mind works.

Scott Anthony Barlow 36:32
We are constantly looking for whatever we consider to be relevant at any particular time. And if that belief is surfacing, all of a sudden, everything that reinforces it is now considered relevant in your world and is getting filtered in versus filtered out.

Karenina Jahnigen 36:46
Exactly. So when I'm looking at high performers, and finding out like, where are they stuck? What is the stuckness? How did it, you know... I start looking for where else have they experienced this type of pressure, because usually, when we experience something in our adult age, it's an extension of an experience that we've had previously. So once we go back there with our adult minds, though, and this is a tip for what people can do, if they find themselves feeling stuck, they can start asking, "where else in my life have I had this feeling, this experience? Where else do I feel rejected? Or where else do I feel like I cannot have what I want?" And remembering back "Okay, well, I do remember that my mom did yell at me and reject me. And that felt terrible in that moment. We can go back in time because our memories live in our minds, we can go back in time with the resources we have now, as adults, we know as adults that we can have what we want. And when we connect that to the memory of not getting what we want, it actually shifts the memory. So our memories, they're not necessarily real. They are a snapshot from our experiences, but it doesn't mean that that's reality. I'm sure you can remember that you had an experience as a child and looking back at it as an adult, you do see that, "Oh, well. I did believe in unicorns back then. But now that I'm an adult, I know that unicorns aren't real."

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:33
Well, hold on.

Karenina Jahnigen 38:35
Yeah, I was gonna say.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:36
Wait a minute. I refuse to accept that.

Karenina Jahnigen 38:41
You know, I shouldn't say that. You know, I shouldn't say that unicorns aren't real, because they might be for some. I just haven't seen them myself.

Scott Anthony Barlow 38:50
Ah, your new title is Dream Crusher. Totally.

Karenina Jahnigen 39:01
Genius. That's hilarious. So okay, so let's see, I get a little bit off track here some time.

Scott Anthony Barlow 39:08
No problem. So this is interesting. So when you help people relate back, I'm curious about the shifting the memories part. Because I believe I understand what you're saying, but I'm super curious, and for everybody else's benefit, too, what do you mean when you were talking about shifting the memory?

Karenina Jahnigen 39:24
So the memories are, as we remember them, they are filtered through our nervous system, you know, the experience is filtered through our nervous system, let's say, in this case, going back to this case, he was pre eight years old. He was filtering through his nervous system, the experience of having his mom shout at him and rejecting him. The memory is essentially just a snapshot. So he took only certain aspects of that experience and stored it and he deleted everything else. Which means that it's not an accurate image of what actually happened. He left out a lot of details, perhaps his mom going through her own emotional stuff, and projecting that onto him as a child, all he remembers is that "Mommy doesn't love me and I can't have what I want." So that is the kind of the zip file, if you will, that is being stored with all the other information deleted. And later on in life, what we can do is we can look back on that experience with the resources that we have now. And by connecting the memory with the current knowledge, you actually shift how you feel about the experience, meaning, like, just for an example, my uncle went and had a conversation with his mom, and asked her if she remembered the incident. She didn't. Because apparently, it wasn't that important to her because it wasn't that big of a deal. But what we did uncover, or he uncovered with his mom was that she did remember the time of life. And she was like, "Oh, I was going through the stuff with your dad at the time." When he then had that piece of information, understanding that his mother was under emotional stress at the time, that totally changed his perception of what was actually happening. And he understood that his mom loved him and his mom did allow him to have things, but in that moment that he asked and had been so powerfully rejected, he had only experienced that aspect of it, and he hadn't seen the bigger picture. So I'm seeing that this might be a little confusing, but having the information that we have now as adults in real time, we can go back and change how we feel about our memories, because we have more information now.

Scott Anthony Barlow 42:02
Yeah, it totally makes sense. It almost seems like what we're doing is actually shifting the context and shifting or understanding of the context, once we're relating it back. So like recently, I was... my wife and I have been recording podcasts for our other podcast, Family Passport, but we were going back and looking at our photos from when we lived in Paris for a short period of time and, you know, we were looking at some of them and we were like, "Wait a minute. That's not how I remembered it." And we're looking at all the stuff in the background and everything else. And clearly, and I can't remember what it was now, I think we're in Notre Dame or something like that. But anyhow, we're looking at it and it's like, "Oh my goodness, this is..." we're staring at it and realizing there's a whole bunch more context there, compared to how we actually remembered it, which then altered our understanding of what was happening at the time. And now we think about it differently. And it seems like that same type of thing.

Karenina Jahnigen 42:52
It's the exact same thing. That was just brilliant. Yes, that's exactly what happens. And so when we're feeling stressed now, what often happens is that we have a snapshot of things that from, you know, our past experiences, but we don't tend to go looking at them like you did, you pulled out the pictures and you went, "Wait a minute, this is not how I..."

Scott Anthony Barlow 43:16
That's not how it happened. No. Yeah.

Karenina Jahnigen 43:21
Exactly. And so it changes how you think about it. And essentially, in very simple terms, that's what I help my clients do. And most of this is, of course, happening on an unconscious level. I mean, when I work with someone, it's because they, themselves, can't figure out what are the images, what are those snapshots that are actually creating this challenge in real time. So I helped them get deeper, go into their unconscious, more work with your unconscious, more so that they can find out where are those triggerss, where are those pictures from the past that we need to look at, such that we change how we feel about it in real time.

Scott Anthony Barlow 44:04
You know, like, on iPhoto... for those of you that are, I guess, Apple users, on iPhoto it's got, when you take a picture it'll actually capture, if you have the setting on, then it'll capture the full live event around it, essentially, like video shot rather than the snapshot, and it captures the context around it. And almost feel like what you do is go back and help people not just look at just the snapshot, but look at, I think you called it like live preview or something like that. I totally don't remember. Somebody listening to this, let me know what it is. But you can see all the stuff that was happening before and after the snapshot and it gives you so much more context. And that's actually part of what we were doing. We were going through and we're looking at that and it shows like about three or four seconds and that completely changes your understanding of what was going on. Because the snapshot is exactly that, it's just one finite, very specific point in time and it doesn't explain everything else that was going on.

Karenina Jahnigen 45:03
Well, that's such a perfect analogy. And I realized I am an Apple user, but I haven't been using photos.

Scott Anthony Barlow 45:10
I'm so going to show you. Okay. All right. Tell me on your way later.

Karenina Jahnigen 45:15
Oh, awesome. This is exactly what it is. That you're just describing it so perfectly.

Scott Anthony Barlow 45:21
So I'm curious then, for people that have characteristically had, they're finding themselves in this beginning stages of this place where they have noticed that something is different and something is off and something is not the way that they used to be and they're starting to feel like things just aren't right, but they've had that track record of success, and they don't know necessarily where to begin looking to make a change and break out or become trapped or become unstuck, because it can be overwhelming. And as you pointed out, maybe it's not that much that needs to happen necessarily, in order to make a change, however, it feels terrible when you're there in the space. So what can people do to get started?

Karenina Jahnigen 46:03
Okay, so the first thing that I would do, and these words are really important, is look for the positive learning. In whatever situation you're in, what is the positive learning? When you ask your unconscious mind that, you will start looking for the positive piece of information that allows you then to get start getting unstuck. Let's say that, for example, you're going into negotiate or you're going into make a sale, and you don't make it and you're starting to feel horrible because you go, "Why am I not making the sale? I have never had a problem with it before." Then the first thing I would do is, what is the positive learning from this experience? The reason that we start feeling bad is because we're hardwired for protection and this is just how our unconscious mind works. You know, we are designed as biological beings to constantly scan our environments, environment for threats. And when we start feeling bad about something, it's essentially just our unconscious mind going, "Oh, there's something over here that is a threat." So this sales experience and not making the sale could feel like a threat. And the only way that your unconscious mind is going to let go of that is if it knows that you have gotten a learning from that experience. Because if not, it's just gonna keep this warning lamp like, "Oh, sales are dangerous" until you go, "Okay, what could I learn from this experience?" And you can go and find any positive learning, but it's very important that it's a positive learning. So a positive learning could be, "Okay, well, perhaps it's better for me to be more prepared about my client, more prepared and knowledge about what my client needs." And you will know that it was the right learning. I mean, there are always many learnings to be had in any situation, but you'll know the moment you start feeling the emotions start dissipating. Does that make sense?

Scott Anthony Barlow 48:32
That makes a ton of sense to me. Because I have been there, had that experience many times, as you are talking about the emotions dissipating, then I remember the feelings of that for many different points. So that absolutely makes sense to me.

Karenina Jahnigen 48:48
So it's the positive learning, looking for the positive learning because there's always a positive learning in any experience. And once you start understanding that, then anything can happen to you and you will still be able to rebound.

Scott Anthony Barlow 49:04
So is this kind of the... I almost think about gratitude. Another example... So we've been working with our kids a lot on intentionally leveraging gratitude, and by that, in some cases, what I mean is intentionally shifting our focus to focus on what we are being thankful for, or what we have gratitude for. And part of the reason that we've been doing that is because I've observed and also seen lots of research to support it that when you engage that part of your brain, it is difficult to engage some of the negative or potentially negative result parts of your brain, too, for lack of a better and more technical description. And is this kind of the same thing is that where as you're looking for that positive experience, it shifts your focus so that you can begin getting the positive results from it?

Karenina Jahnigen 49:59
Yes. So nothing inherently is bad or good, first and foremost. And there are no experiences that are inherently bad or good. It's how we feed them. That's important and that matters. And I am totally behind you on gratitude as an antidote, or I should say, more as a preventative measure. And if you approach every situation, with a sense of gratitude or appreciation for what it has to bring to you, then it's easier to not get pulled down by, quote unquote, negative experiences. And it's also a great way to start getting out of the negative. So if you do find something that you are grateful for, in that negative experience, then that's something that will definitely start helping you move out of it. The positive learning and gratitude and appreciation all go hand in hand.

Scott Anthony Barlow 51:09
That is super interesting. And I found that, I'm curious on your take, because I don't know if I've ever asked anybody this before, but my own personal experience is that, when you practice those types of things, it gets easier to initiate that over time. Is that what you found to working with people? Or how do you think about that?

Karenina Jahnigen 51:27
Absolutely. And I see this in myself too, before at the beginning of practicing, and I practice appreciation every day now. But before I began practicing appreciation, it used to be harder, I think, for me, one of the positive learning...

Scott Anthony Barlow 51:48
Speaking of, weird.

Karenina Jahnigen 51:52
From living with all my conditions. You know, being a third culture kid, and all this stuff, is that early on, it was like, I could sink or I could swim. And I chose to swim. And the way that I swam was by always looking for well, how can I keep moving? How can I find out I want to feel pleasure, I want to feel good, I want to go places, I want to have powerful experiences. And so it was not something that just kind of came to me intuitively, it was through conditioning, through experiencing a lot of hardship, where and having this desire to experience fulfillment and success, having the desire for that be much bigger than the desire to capitulate, and to feel sadness. It just conditioned me to start looking for the positive experiences, because if not, I would just keep backsliding, and it's really sad and boring, back down and down the tunnel of, like, depression and victimhood and feeling sad. It's not a cool place to be. It's like, I started conditioning myself at an early age, but then when I started learning about it through, you know, I was being taught by my teachers how important it is to look for the positive learning, it kind of just made complete sense to me.

Scott Anthony Barlow 53:19
That is absolutely fantastic. And on that note, I've got to say, thank you, this has been such a fun conversation. And I really appreciate you taking the time and making actually even, I think we've gotten a little bit extra time. So I appreciate that, too. For everybody that wants to get more Karenina, did I say it right?

Karenina Jahnigen 53:38
Oh yeah, you're 99% there.

Scott Anthony Barlow 53:42
Speaking of practice. You know, all jokes aside, I would say that go over and check out your stuff. But where can people find more about you? Let's say that they want to learn more.

Karenina Jahnigen 53:56
So well, I have a website. That's very basic. And that's at kareninajahnigen.com. And...

Scott Anthony Barlow 54:06
If you want the spelling, we'll have the spelling if you head on over to happentoyourcareer.com click on podcast, and we'll get it right there for you.

Karenina Jahnigen 54:15
Yeah, I think that's much easier than me spelling it, because that will take up another 20 minutes. But more importantly, I am coming out with a book called "Leap: How to Risk Again When There's No Net." And in that book, I'm going to be talking about how to, as a natural born risk taker living in what I call the risk taker reward cycle, and who has been stopped in their tracks and is now stuck in executive paralysis, having a hard time executing, how they can leap, which is then the system that I'm going to be outlining my proven process for how to get back to taking big risks and getting big rewards, I will be outlining the entire process there. I'll be including lots of clients' success stories, I'll be sharing my own personal stories. And I'll even be giving some examples of some powerful people who have fallen flat on their face after a risk gone wrong. And also showing people how they got back to it using the same system.

Scott Anthony Barlow 55:32
I love it. Look for "Leap" then.

Karenina Jahnigen 55:35
Yes. It'll be out this fall. Thank you. I'm so excited to be presenting this to the world.

Scott Anthony Barlow 55:43
Very, very cool. Hey, and thank you so much. Any parting words or thoughts before I say, this is awesome and amazing, and I absolutely appreciate it even more.

Karenina Jahnigen 55:54
Parting words is that if you have ever experienced any kind of success, even if it was when you were 10 years old, then you have the capacity to find that in your life now. So if you have had success in your past, it is possible for you to experience that again and also potentially that in your future. So you don't have to ever feel stuck anywhere. There are ways out and success can be a real part of your life again.

Scott Anthony Barlow 56:29
Very cool. Hey, seriously, thank you. I really appreciate it. And thanks for making the time and taking the time and this has just been absolutely fantastic.

Karenina Jahnigen 56:38
I really appreciate it. I want to thank you and thanks to all your listeners and I'm just really excited that people now know that they can have success again.

Scott Anthony Barlow 56:50
We have so much more in store coming up for you next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Take a listen.

Robert 57:00
First interview was actually pretty good, you know, went through the whole thing and when I got face to face with the first person it was very great because we actually do a lot of the same people so it was super simple interview. And then I met another person that day and it was like I hit a stone wall.

Scott Anthony Barlow 57:19
All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. We'll see you next time. Until then, I am out. Adios.