435: Getting Out of Your Head: A Guide To (Finally) Making A Decision

Sharissa Sebastian 00:01
One of my favorite quotes from one of our favorite people. That it actually really helped me a lot is when he says that, “change happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.” And that has been so true in my own experience.

Introduction 00:20
This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:44
The biggest showstopper of career progression isn't your circumstances. Nope. It's getting stuck in the trap of indecision and inaction. Only, it doesn't feel like that. Here's an audio guide to learn how to move beyond overthinking in your career.

Phillip Migyanko 01:02
Is this career change important to you? Is getting out of that job that is not fulfilling anymore actually important to you? Is finding work that fills you up actually important to you? Then, how quickly are you looking to make that change?

Scott Anthony Barlow 01:17
That's Phillip Migyanko. He's our Director of Client Success here at HTYC. He's the one that talks to every single person who reaches out to schedule a conversation, who needs help. He's one of the first people that you talk to. Every week, he talks with someone actually, let's be honest, multiple someone who begin to overthink their options. The hardest thing for us to see is people who are waiting too long, they end up staying in limbo, and don't make a decision to be able to move forward with their career and ultimately with their life. It's super hard for us because we know what's possible on the other side. But it is something that happens all the time. And then people will call us like, you know, one or two or three years later, sometimes even more than that, and say, "Hey, okay, I am finally ready to move forward." As it turns out, Phillip recently had a conversation with one of our coaches, Sharissa Sebastian, that we recorded about this very topic. So we've decided to share this conversation with you today. The biggest of which is we'd love to be able to spare you some pain by overthinking because it turns out that all of us on the team are recovering overthinkers.

Phillip Migyanko 02:36
That's exactly what I like to say like I'm a recovering overthinker because my coach helped me at the time kind of worked through she's like, "Phillip, you know what, we're actually... if you keep diagnosing and calling yourself an over-thinker, you're more likely to keep overthinking." So I usually like to go alright, I'm a former overthinker we have moved past this and today, you know, one of the things that Sharissa and I are helping all of our listeners break down is if you find yourself kind of stuck in this overthinking mindset of, "what ifs" or "will this work out" or things like that, we've got some tools and systems and questions that you can go through to be able to take one step forward and move the process and take some action. So whether that's or just speaking directly to careers, but this can apply to lots of places, whether you're trying to decide what you're gonna watch on Netflix that night, what are you going to have for dinner that evening, or even in my cases last year, when kind of buying a new car, the same principle holds true and really, it's let's stop taking so much time, let's get right to the decisions and really move to that next stage. So it really becomes more of a question of how do we help people on our team break out of these overthinking states and really starting to decide what's the most important thing for you? And hint, it's not more thinking. So just in case, if you thought that, it's not going to be more than that. So, Sharissa, I guess my question, or at least my first question for you is, how do we actually help people decide what's important enough to then make that decision? How do people if, someone's right now they're going through a stage of "Oh, I just don't know what to do, I know what it looks like," how do they know it's actually important enough to do something about it?

Sharissa Sebastian 04:21
Oh, that is a great question. And one of the things is just to basically take a quick imagery of where they are right now, as I speak from my own experience when I say this as well, there times where I, you know, I had needed to make those bigger changes. It took a little bit more effort on my part because it was a significant change. I had to really be honest with myself, I had to take where I was and really understand, okay, what is... so many things that go into this, but basically, why is it important, right? So you can ask yourself, start off by asking the question like, why is it that I'm even contemplating? There's a reason why it keeps coming up. There's a reason why you probably keep coming back to the same decision point over and over again, and being honest with yourself to say, okay, do I really wanted to stay where I am and need purpose? Or do I really want to lean in and explore this a little bit more? It doesn't mean that you have to make this giant me. And but even just, you know, making the decision to be open to experience can sometimes really help. And one of my favorite quotes from one of our favorite people talking about it, that it actually really helped me a lot is, when he says that, "change happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change." And that has been so true in my own experience. And that goes back to you know, just really being honest with yourself where you are, and saying, okay, is this decision really going to help me get unstuck and get away from something that, you know, that I don't want, or because of something that I really do want. And when that's paying off things, even greater than the pain of change, that's when that decision needs to happen. And that's when you go through that, that next step in the process, which we'll be talking about.

Phillip Migyanko 05:44
I think that's so important, because it's for a lot of people that I see right now, and I talked to one of my jobs, here it Happen To Your Career, I got to talk to everybody who we earn the opportunity to work with, but everybody who we... comes through the door. And what I often tell people is like, "Hey, you know, sometimes being in a really bad situation, we know that's not that great, we know we need to be leaving that job." We also know, on the other... on the flip side of that, we have a really, really great position. But sometimes I deal with those people who are right in the middle of that, who are not in a bad situation of... but actually not in a good situation, either. And I think you hit the nail on the head of like, ultimately, when do you feel like you need to be making that decision when the pain becomes just as bad that you know that you have to leave? So I think that is a really interesting kind of next question I have for you of: how do we help people? Or how do you help our clients? Or when you think about people who are in this stage of really trying to decide when to make that decision you mentioned, you know, having more pain than the actual situation. So how do we help decide people how quickly they're looking to make that decision? And what happens if they're not ready?

Sharissa Sebastian 06:52
Yeah, so one of the things that I think is so important in this stage in the process, and is just thinking about, like, if this is something that's kind of nagging on you, like it's keep coming up over and over, and again, day after day, you have this little thing, the little voice in your head, they keep saying, well, what if you know, we make one of these, you know, what if I'm missing something? And this is constantly going, I thought, well, that causes a shift, right? If you're in this place where you're... maybe you have a job, that's not bad, you know, not bad or anything like that. You're just kind of chugging along, day in and day out. But suddenly you hit the face, in your career, or even your job with like, this is not fulfilling me quite in the way that I want to and maybe even you know, maybe don't know why. And it's difficult to create, and that's fine. But it gets messy. And there's this constant like voice in your head saying, but what if, or should I explore this? And those questions keep coming up here and they don't go away? That is probably a good time to really look into, okay, what do I need to do with this? How do I even start that exploration so that I can get into a place where I can make the best decision for me?

Phillip Migyanko 07:46
I think that's so, so important. And it's almost like, if it's not that important to you right now, then it's, let's move to more, to other kind of more important things. And it's so funny, because even creating this podcast today, I was actually overthinking all the content here. I'm like, Okay, what do we help people do? How do we get people to that? And so many times when I get to talk to people who are in these overthinking states, it's they've kind of almost driven, drove, whatever the English phrases is, so please email me back and let me know the correct English there, I have typos all the time. But more importantly, it's... how do we help people to kind of move past that and move past all those thoughts into that decision? Because they drive themselves crazy. And they know it, that's why oftentimes, over-thinkers tend to know that they're overthinking. And then they've already thought that they know that they're overthinking. And it just goes always into those next stages.

Sharissa Sebastian 08:43
That's so true. I know you are really good at walking people through this and helping him to navigate the space. So I would love to know, like, from your perspective, how do you help people figure out like, is this really important right now?

Phillip Migyanko 08:56
That's a really, really good question. You know, I think it's a lot of the points that you said have really, honestly, if you're listening to this podcast, if you're jumping on a call with me, if in some realm, you know that this change is really important, it is important to you. Because at the end of the day, what I tell people at Happen To Your Career, one of the biggest things that we do is we help people get really clear on what they want, both in their lives and their careers, and ultimately make the behavior changes for that. And if that's important, if getting to the life and the career that you want, is actually important, awesome. We know that it’s... let's actually make the change for it. Because we all have so much time on this earth. And we need and it's more important to keep moving towards that instead of staying stuck where you are. And if it's not at this time, that's okay, too. We're here when you're ready. It's more important that progress comes from actions, the same we... There's a very intentional reason why Sharissa and I are talking on this podcast, because we both like Tony Robbins, and say what you will, whatever opinions you have about him, but there's a lot of good nuggets in there. And one of the biggest things that he says is, "clarity comes from action." And he has another phrase that says, and you can let me know, if I got this right or wrong it's a, "stay it in your head, you're dead." We have to take these specific actions, or we have to be able to wait to get out our heads and go into massive action, because that's where clarity is going to come from. And before we get to that point, we have to really decide, is this actually as important right now? And if so, what will you commit to doing differently, if we know that at the end, we're looking to get a different result, if you know that what you're doing right now is not working, then inherently we need a different result, which then creates a different behavior. So we have to be behaving differently. And to do that, before that, we have to have good mindsets, we have to be in a good, emotional state. But I know for me that if I didn't have good sleep the night before, if I didn't have lunch today, if for me, if I haven't exercised in a while, and I'm just feeling kind of pudgy, that happens for Phillip, that's a word that I use on myself pudgy sometimes, anyways, if I'm just not feeling good, then generally I'm not going to make good decisions. So I'm usually thinking about "alright, what creates a good situation for Phillip? But at the end of the day, how can I put myself in a good mental state of feeling prepared, feeling awesome, feeling joyful, and playful and awesome, and all those types of things." And usually, for me, that means I'm taking care of Phillip, I'm doing things like getting good sleep, eating good meals, getting exercise, having good conversations, going outside, all of those things. And that puts me in a mindset to ultimately, I can decide how I want to behave. So I'm going to get different results. Because most of the time when I'm talking to over-thinkers, there's so often in the state of they just keep trying the same thing over and over again. "I've looked for so many jobs on Indeed and I just, I keep coming across the same things or man, I just keep trying to think about this over and over again" I hear them say and they go, "I just, I can't get past it." So how we help people really decide and get to know what's the most important to then now is go... is this really enough that you need to change to have to... is this big enough change that you really would want to create the life that you're looking to have even if we don't exactly know what that is? And if not, that's okay. But if so, which usually it is? What will you commit to doing differently? part of that comes with priorities, right? We have... there's whole bunch of things that we help people do. But at the end of the day, we only have so much time, there's only 24 hours in a day. So I guess that's an interesting question back to you, Sharissa. How do we help people determine their priorities? How do we help them like get to the point where it's okay, this is the first thing I'm going to do or this is actually what's most important to me, once they've decided, "yeah, it's actually is the most important."

Sharissa Sebastian 12:30
There is something that I mean, there's a number of different things that go into that. And one of the things I want to actually go back to partake something in terms of charity, because I think that is so important, because a lot of times, over thinkers can get into space and spiral because we don't have that character, we're not sure you know, that uncertainty of like, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do. And it's not clear to me. So therefore, you know, I'm gonna keep spiraling until some magical moment happens and then this time, and so being intentional about that, and knowing what those priorities are, and being able to say, okay, based on what I know about myself, what's important to me, and then also the other part of this is starting with the end in mind, which is so important and getting clarity on that. So in other words, what you know, based on what we know about ourselves and what's important to us and all of that, what is going to be ideal, always close to ideal as we can possibly get and getting clarity on that then it's so much easier to kind of work backwards from them to say, oh, what are the steps we need to take to get to us closer to that in a way that's going to, you know, fit, we are, as people, but also fit our lifestyle and the amount of time we have because there's so much that goes into this whole process and to you know, to help you get over that hump, of the overthinking, right? It's the clarity, it's all of these different things that were mentioned earlier as well. And that all comes together. And being able to pull those pieces together just makes it so much easier. But then it's all about the action at that point, right? They don't so much in time and before, it's like, okay, it's go time, but you've got to take the time to build the clarity. And then that's how you really get this momentum going really quickly.

Phillip Migyanko 13:52
I think one thing to point out, too, I was reading a really, really interesting article in preparation for this. And it was from James Clear. And he wrote a wonderful, wonderful book called Atomic Habits. It's all about habit change. And it was my most recommended book for 2019. And the reason is, because he, pun intended, is that his actions are incredibly clear. And he wrote a very interesting article about the difference between motion versus action. Meaning that if you're really looking to get to this stage, if you're really looking to get a new career, there's a difference between applying for 20 jobs on Indeed, versus actually having a conversation with somebody who's doing the work you're looking to do. The motion is we're just going through the motions of what job what we think job change looks like, or what we've been trained to do, or research things, because that's where overthinker is also get caught up to is going down the research rabbit holes, and just researching something in depth and going, alright, I've convinced myself that this being an astronaut is not going to work. So I'm not going to do it. Because I believe that, so I'm not going to instead, but Okay, I'm gonna go research another rabbit hole, and then do that again. When in all reality, the best thing to do is actually take an action, can you go... and I'm just using astronaut as an example here. But can you go talk to an astronaut? Or you talk to somebody who's been in space? Or can we talk to somebody who's worked at NASA, whatever those things might be, because that's going to get you so much better information than all the motions and smart people, like over thinkers, trick themselves by doing a lot of these motion activities getting exhausted there. And then kind of having the cycle of stuck, keep going around and around. When in all reality, we just need one action to do to bring focus to go, "Hey, is this something that could work or not work?"

Sharissa Sebastian 15:34
And as it gets comes down to like, knowing how to do that, right? Like, knowing how to take the right action, so that you're just not spiraling into the motion. I love that, that's so powerful, the motion versus the action. So I would love to know how you pull up in your conversations, how do you help people break down that decision?

Phillip Migyanko 15:51
Yeah. And I just to add on what you said, too, because I think it dovetails into this, which is we have to work backwards. Right? We have to go alright, what's ultimately the most important to you? What's that ideal state that we're going to as much as that we know about that, essentially, what's our end goal, right? Just like building a house, buying a car I had that I was overthinking that this last year. But whatever that end state might be, how do we work backwards from there? And more often than not with everybody that we're working with, well, we often hear is that it's not it's always a lot of work, but it's ultimately the most fulfilling. We go, alright, what's the really the end goal that we're looking for? And how do we chunk those pieces out and basically, give yourself sprints. So the easiest way to think about it is if you've ever heard of Scrum, it's a different, it's a way of productivity. But one of the practices they do is they break things up into two week sprints. That's just an example. But you can maybe do one week sprints or things like that. But if we know we have a huge goal at the end, we essentially want to break that up into what's one thing you can do over these next two weeks, and making sure that action is clear on what exactly you're looking to do. So in the astronaut example, that might mean I'm looking to have one conversation or send five reach out emails to one astronaut, not research a whole bunch of other things over here, but actually what's one action that's going to take you closer to your goal, and then having that over two week chunk timeframe, and then doing that again and again and again, and what that does and makes things actionable, it makes things clear because you're also defining when those things will happen. But also, this is gonna allow you to basically test things out over time. Because I think Sharissa, you had a wonderful point of, I think people that the fears and the potholes that people get into your, okay, wait, what if I become an astronaut, but then I hate and I realized that the space suit doesn't fit that well, then I'm stuck being an astronaut and I'm back again in the same spot again. And it's more about actually, it's not a zero or 100 kind of game. It's more about how do we take one step forward? I might be beating this horse to death, but you can hear me keep saying it's more about just moving ahead and little bits. And we chunk these things out and make them as each of the chunks is clear and possible, because that helps a lot of different reasons about research in psychology, and supports a lot of these points, but more about it is the motivating factor of having these small wins along the way. And for overthinkers, if you're stuck in the state, if you've been here for such a long time, it can get exhausting, and depressing, you just get apathetic because you're just like, I just exhausted myself. So we kind of give yourself permission to kind of put those things to the side. And let's chunk it out and do what's one thing we can do to move forward when we know we have a big goal. Because that's, in all reality, when Sharissa and I are helping our clients and everybody Happen To Your Career and people we've helped in the past and even to the state, we help them do big things. And how you do big things is little bits at a time.

Sharissa Sebastian 18:53
That's right.

Phillip Migyanko 18:53
So it's funny because people you know, they get into the research rabbit holes, or they are afraid to commit and they get those, what if decisions. Where do you find, Sharissa, people get the most stuck? Or what are some like, at this point in the conversation, I bet a lot of our listeners like, okay, I'm here. I'm moving one step forward, I got you. But oh, wait, I've got all these fears popping up that bla bla bla bla, what are those that we generally see? What are some of the biggest ones that we see people out?

Sharissa Sebastian 19:24
Oh, yeah. So this is a good question. One of the biggest ones, I think, is this, wanting to get it right, wanting to make sure that everything is perfect. And like, you know, you've done all the research. And so you want to, you know, check all the boxes, and then go back into the research if you have any kind of doubt in. And so we get into again, that spiral, right, you keep going and kind of like, two steps forward and 10 steps back, because we keep second guessing and questioning and doubting. And so one of the things and going back to actually what you said earlier, which I think is so important to this entire process is mindset, like you have to go in to this whole process in the right mindset, because if you are trying to get it perfect, if you are waiting for some magical moments to take action, it's never going to happen, you're going to keep you know, staying in that spiral, and it's going to drive you crazy and can increase the stress. And it's going to have negative impacts on your health and so on and so forth. But one of the ways to kind of break that cycle is to realize that you have a choice, you have a choice off, you know, what you allow your mind to think and to believe. And so being in that growth mindset, rather than a fixed mindset is so important. And what I mean by that is a growth mindset is where you, you know, as you're taking these baby steps, you know, at a time, first of all, you're celebrating progress along the way, which I think is so important, I always tell my clients, even spending five minutes on something in a day, you know, like you celebrate the heck out of that progress, because it really helps with a building momentum. But going back to the growth mindset, is realizing that every little step you take is one step closer, even if you know, take that step, you're like, nope, this is not the right thing like that astronaut suit that you're talking about, oh, okay, and that's fine. You have a learning and you've learned something that you didn't know before you took that step. now you know, you know, it's just as valuable to know what you don't want as it is to know what to do want. So through this whole process and taking one step at a time and celebrating those, you know, the baby steps along the way, you're going to learn and develop so much, which goes back to the growth mindset of being open to just learn and knowing that every opportunity that you have, every call that you have, conversation that you have, every bit of research, everything is leading you closer and closer to where you want to be, even if you feel like you're hitting a dead end, and then you have to backtrack, and you have to go another way, that's so important to you, you know, along the way. And so having that growth mindset of like, every single step that I'm taking is leading me closer versus being in the mindset of like, if I do this, and I fail, then that's a waste. It's not a waste. You're always gonna build on what you know. And I, we speak a lot about this, especially with our clients who are making transition in there, you know, it applies to that as well when they're transitioning from one type of career to another. And that's one of the things I always say to them is you building on it, you don't ever have to look at that and go, Oh, I just wasted the last 10 years of my life. So even if you're in this overthinking space, and you've been in this overthinking space for a while, you haven't viscerally wasted that time, but you also don't want to go like you know, a couple of weeks down the road a month or even longer than and look back and go, Oh, yeah, I just spent all this time overthinking when if I had taken the action would have been, you know that much closer. So being in that growth mindset of realizing that you're going to celebrate the progress no matter what it is, you're going to celebrate the progress but you have to commit to taking the actions. If you don't, you're just going to keep going backwards. It's like that analogy of like quicksand. Right? So the more you stay in overthinking and even if you, you know your mind could be telling you "Hey, you know we're doing the right thing, all of this" but the more you don't take the action, the quicker you're going to sink into that quicksand. And that actually brings me to my next point, which I think is also a big part of this. Is the support and accountability. So listen, you know, raising your hand when you need help, whether that's having a conversation with someone, whether you know, whatever support you need, or having somebody even hold you accountable to take action is so important. So going back to the quicksand analogy, if you stay in the overthinking mode, and you don't raise your hand, well, then you're going to keep sinking deeper and deeper, but you're not going to get into any further, closer to what you be. But if you raise your hand and you're like, you know, open to somebody helping you with, it's even just that, you know, conversation or saying, "Hey, you know what, I'm going to commit to this action" and I'm going to check in with you and make sure that I actually take them back, even if it's a tiny baby step, that's gonna get you quick out of quicksand. And much faster on the way towards what it is that you really want.

Phillip Migyanko 23:15
It's so interesting, because there's a tons of research, we have read a bunch of books, but you know, more of, I think about, when I talk to the these folks, it's almost like they're driving themselves crazy. They know that they're doing it, and it's those resistance pieces that Steven Pressfield talks about this in the War of Art. And it's such an interesting point, because it can just come in here and can convince us of like, "hey, if you do this, you're gonna screw everything up." And really, at the end of the day, all these things are figure out-able. These types of choices you're going to make, it's not, at the end of the day, you can always reverse those or come back to that we're not making heart surgery type of decisions here with these commitment types of things. So to recap a little bit. We have to go through these whole steps. It's one, deciding is this change actually important to you? And specifically, if you're listening to this podcast, with careers, is this career change, important to you? Is getting out of that job that is not fulfilling anymore actually important to you? Is finding work that fills you up actually important to you? If it's not, that's okay, come back when it is or go on to something else. If it is. And hint, if you've gotten this far on the podcast, it most likely is. If it is, then how quickly are you looking to make that change? Knowing that the sooner that you can get on it, and the sooner you can start, the better because we only have so much time. So is this actually important? How quickly are you looking to make that change? Cool. So and then going from that standpoint to, is it really... is it important to do that now? So making sure that if you are committing to doing that, if it's a great time, that you put yourself in good state that you're taking care of yourself, but really exciting to make the choice that it is important to you. From there going, alright, finding fulfilling work is really the most important thing. I'm committed to doing that. It's defining what are the biggest priorities when it comes to that. Like really what matters the most to you. Fulfilling work looks different for everybody. But what matters the most to you, and what's going to matter the most to you, your family, whoever you have in your life, or it's just you whatever that might be, find those biggest parties for you next. Most likely, those are big things, especially in career change. So if we know that whatever those big parties are, in that end goal is we break those into chunks into timeframes. So how can you help make that big goal of the thing that's really important to you break those back up into chunks? And then making sure that you've got this plan, we call internally a plan for inevitable success. But how can you make sure that this plan is all sound and ready to go? And sometimes that might be bringing an accountability person, that might be bringing in a coach, that might be bringing in a friend? Or how do you know where the triggers are going to be for you, so you do not get stuck in those places? Sharissa, is there anything else to add to that? Did I cover everything or anything else to add for our overthinkers out there?

Sharissa Sebastian 26:08
No, you totally nailed that. I think you covered everything. But one of the things that I would love to add, if I have a couple seconds.

Phillip Migyanko 26:13
Go ahead

Sharissa Sebastian 26:14
Is something I call like a future costing exercise with my mind. And this helps in so many ways. But basically what this is, is thinking about, you know, taking yourself out of the current, your current situation and the overthinking all of that and basically saying, "Okay, if I were to project myself in the future, whether that's six months down the road, one year down the road, or whatever, you know, whatever that timeframe is, what would I be proud of myself or doing right now in this moment that maybe I'm not doing right now or that you know, that I really want to do?" So basically, what I mean by that is looking to your future and your future self and looking back at where you are right now and saying, "What decision do I need to make now, that my future self is going to thank me for?" So that helps to get us out of this current, you know, this zone of overthinking and saying, "Okay, if I could do that, what decision would I make today that one year down the road, I'm gonna look back and go, wow, I'm so glad that on this date, I made that decision. And then I, you know, I took action on it."

Phillip Migyanko 27:04
I love that. So going away from today, you might be thinking, "okay, Phillip and Sharissa, I've got everything I need to know, I know the steps. What's something I can do today?" Which is a great question, overthinker. I very much appreciate that question. So the one thing that you can do today, and I've been saying this, a whole bunch is move one step forward. So right now, take out a pen and paper, write down one thing that you can do to move one step forward. And in the thing that you're looking to do. It might be career, it might be not related to career, but write down what's the one thing that you're looking to do. And if you're not sure what that is, then schedule a call with myself, our team, and we can help you do that. But set whatever that one thing might be to moving one step forward, set a schedule for when you will do that. So again, that might come into the two week timeframe. But when will you be doing that, and the next week, and in the next two weeks, set a date for that. If it's helpful, share that with an accountability partner, share that with a coach, share that with somebody who you trust, that can hold you accountable to that, then be specific. So if we are clear about the action you're going to take, what will you do? What does done actually look like in this case? You're not just researching, you're not going to go look for companies that might be a good fit. No, no, we're gonna look for five companies that are in this Austin, Texas area that fit this space, we want you to be specific, because done is better than perfect. And then set the end date. So when will you have this accomplished by? So three steps, schedule done action, define what done action will be in specifics and then make sure you have an end date for that. So if it might be a whole bunch of steps in there, chunk those out. And when will you be looking to complete that by? So today, take an action, put a date on it. And if you have any questions or like Phillip, I'm still getting stuck. We have a whole team here to help you, myself, Sharissa. We have a whole bunch of other people here too. But as a self diagnosed, well now I think former overthinkers, we can help you through the process. So, Sharissa, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. I very, very much appreciate it.

Sharissa Sebastian 29:07
Oh, you're welcome. This is so much fun. And for all you overthinkers out there, you're not alone. And it is absolutely possible to get through this and to get to the other side, basically, and definitely speak with Phillip. He is an absolute genius at this. And so it's super easy to talk with him. So he can absolutely help you and of course, you know the whole team is behind you too. So if you need anything, like Phillip said, we are all here. And yeah, we're with you. We're here to support you in any way that you...

Phillip Migyanko 29:34
Perfect and we are committed to moving you one step forward. So thanks again Sharissa for coming on the podcast. And thanks for all of our listeners today. So we'll see you on the next episode and I hand this back over to Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:47
Most of our episodes on Happen To Your Career often showcase stories of people that have identified and found and taken the steps to get to work that they are absolutely enamoured with, that matches their strengths, and is really what they want in their lives. And if that's something that you're ready to begin taking steps towards, that is awesome, you can actually get on the phone with us and our team. And we can have a conversation to find the very best way that we can help. It's super informal. And we try to understand what your goals are, where you want to go, and what specifically you need our help with. And then we figure out the very best type of help for you, whatever that looks like, and sometimes even customize that type of help. And then we make it happen. The really easy way to schedule a conversation with our team is just go to scheduleaconversation.com, that scheduleaconversation.com, and find a time that works best for you. We'll ask you a few questions, as well. And then we'll get you on the phone to figure out how we can get you going to work that you really want to be doing that fits your strengths, that you love, and you're enamoured with, Hey, I can't wait to hear from you.

Scott Anthony Barlow 31:11
Pretty much everyone faces fear when it comes to changing careers. Will they like me during the interview? What if I say something stupid or that doesn't fit? What if they see too much variety in my background? What if they think I'm a generalist? What if they hire me, but it's not as good as it seems? Fear of the unknown is paralyzing sometimes. But here's the deal, you can learn to overcome that fear, you can learn to not minimize it. But instead move through it.

Margaret Fredrickson 31:43
Feeling, like, nervous before an interview. Thinking well, it's an interview, you know how these things are. And I know everyone feels nervous. But I would just express to her, you know, we had one call in particular where I just felt so vulnerable. And I felt like oh, they're gonna hate me, they're oh my gosh, or they're gonna think I'm so kooky and crazy. I'm not, you know, I'm not this buttoned up fundraiser type. That's what they want. Oh, gosh, they're, you know, took acting classes, they're gonna find that out, they're gonna think I'm crazy. I'm like, well, they might think I'm crazy, too.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:19
That's Margaret Fredrickson. We get really deep in our conversation into how she made this change, particularly learning how a career search is so much more than just a job search. It's finding a career and a lifestyle that fits your needs. So we talked about what that looked like in Margaret's journey, and then a firsthand account on how coaching can help you overcome your fears and hurdles, to not only get you to your next career, but head down a path to what you really enjoy, or have even more joy more often in your life. So one of the things I thought was really interesting about this conversation is that we did something we don't normally do, we brought our her coach on to be able to shed some light into how that works. And also, maybe the most important, and most important piece of this episode, I want you to listen for as Margaret's talking, as her coach is talking, it's vulnerability, sharing vulnerability in and throughout the entire way and process of your career change. It's something that really doesn't get talked about in that way people say, you know, you need to be yourself, they say, be vulnerable, all those things, which is much harder to do in reality, it's not just a buzzword that's gotten popular these days. And we talk specifically how it worked in Margaret's journey and how it helped her be able to get a role that quite frankly, she wouldn't have done otherwise. All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.