479: Using Learnings From Your Past Roles To Define Your Career Path

Quynh Killpack 00:00

I think the whole thing is a great evolution because I've always tried to tell myself that what I need to know to move forward is in each step.

Introduction 00:15

This is the Happen To Your Career podcast, with Scott Anthony Barlow. We help you stop doing work that doesn't fit you, figure out what does and make it happen. We help you define the work that's unapologetically you, and then go get it. If you're ready to make a change, keep listening. Here's Scott. Here's Scott. Here's Scott.

Scott Anthony Barlow 00:35

Many careers are made up of a string of mediocre jobs. And if you're a high performer, by the way, spoiler alert, if you're listening to this podcast, you likely are a high performer. But if you're a high performer, mediocrity can feel like prison– a prison with no doors, no windows and no escape. Okay, that's actually starting to sound more like a coffin. Anyhow, let me pivot to some great news. Just because you've only ever had mediocre jobs does not mean that's all there is out there. There's so much more. And there is a career that is the right fit for you that actually can help you be more happy more often and influence your level of fulfillment, happiness. Career progress doesn't mean knowing exactly what you want from day one of your career, and so many of us feel like we need to know that like all the time, so much pressure. Oh, and it doesn't mean we're necessarily working to climb the corporate ladder. Career progress is really taking your learnings from each of your roles, even the mediocre ones, determining what you enjoyed about each of them, what worked and using those experiences to build, what we like to call your ideal career profile.

Quynh Killpack 01:44

Originally, the plan was where I can work and live in both countries, you know, and I have no idea how to get there. I don't even know where to start. And I get paralyzed during research. And I feel like I have to take courses and go to extra schools.

Scott Anthony Barlow 02:00

That's Quynh Killpack and I'm pretty excited for you to hear her story. When Quynh moved to the US on a student visa in 2011, and after spending a decade working many different jobs here in the US, she realized her biggest priority was her family, specifically to see her parents more often who are still living in Vietnam. Before the pandemic hit, she got a taste of what it would be like to have a job that allowed her to travel back to Vietnam for work. Quynh reached out to us. And she had a few very specific goals. One was to be able to bring your parents from the US to visit her for extended periods of time. Pretty cool, right? Also, she wanted the flexibility to spend time with them when they're visiting, might as well they're here, and also allowing her to travel to Vietnam. Now, Quynh also wanted to be able to help her parents and buy a house. She came to us with these questions– "how can I make all of this possible?" Stay with me because you're gonna want to hear how Quynh's determination, her work ethic, and so many other qualities she gained from being an international student led to some pretty amazing results.

Quynh Killpack 03:07

I came here in 2011 on a student visa. So I'm from Vietnam, and it's very typical for, I would say, middle class family to send their children to go study abroad. So like within my high school class, there are kids in the US, there are kids in Europe, like, Australia, all over the world. It's very, very common to go away for college. So it's all lined up, you know, and yeah, so I just follow that.

Scott Anthony Barlow 03:37

So what happened after you arrived here? Tell me a little bit about your experience and what led up to where you are today.

Quynh Killpack 03:48

I just... it's like a different world to go from Saigon Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam to Salt Lake City, Utah. The City that I'm from in Vietnam is... the population is greater than New York. So to go... from the Salt Lake City, Utah, there is like, I feel like when I first got here, like nobody lived here, and...

Scott Anthony Barlow 04:11

Where are all the people?

Quynh Killpack 04:13

Yes, like I... because, you know, and like everybody drive cars too. So you don't see them. In Vietnam, you see people out, you know, riding scooters and walking around. So it was a good experience. Just to sum it up, I think I didn't know... I was usually a planner and I just like, don't know what I wanted to do after... I know what I have to decide after two years of community college but I didn't know I was just doing a general education. And then when I have to choose something to transfer to a four year again, because I cannot, like, that's the thing would international student– you cannot be part time. So even if you don't know what you're studying, you have to sign up for at least 12 credits, and so I just have to pick something. And my mom is a doctor. So I know I like to help people. So I just use this little bit of knowledge. And I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna go into healthcare." And I look into that more. And I wanted to do occupational therapists, which is a graduate degree. So I just need to pick a bachelor, like any bachelor and doing two prerequisites to do that. And at the time it was so... I remember writing this really long email to my parents, explaining what occupational therapist is because it hasn't exist in Vietnam. There's PT, but there's no OT. So we're just like, I don't even know what to call it in Vietnamese, you know, but I would try to like learn about it and explain it to my parents, that's another piece of being an international student is your support system is like, your parents want the best for you, but they don't know because they didn't go to college here. And they also didn't live here, like, having lived in the US. So they don't know, like, what does that mean? Where you can work with that? What's your salary ranges? I don't know any of that. So you're alone in figuring that out. And like, it was scary to choose that. Because I was like, "what if I choose this and I can't get, like, work sponsorship and I go back to Vietnam? And what do I do?"

Scott Anthony Barlow 06:15

Tell me a little bit about what are some of the different points in the process when you're going to a foreign country, and you are going through this type of process? Because you and I have had a conversation before we hit record where you were describing to me some of the different timelines, and also some of the different pressures along the way, as you're going through this.

Quynh Killpack 06:42

I came to the US when I was 17 in 2011, attended a community college until I was 13, transferred to a four year institution and graduated in 16. And then from 2011 to 17, I'm on my student visa. And then after that, I've met my husband and I got married. And that's where I've switched from non immigrant to immigrants. And that's like I went through the whole permanent residence process.

Scott Anthony Barlow 07:10

Looking back on that, what do you feel were the hardest parts out of that set of experiences for you?

Quynh Killpack 07:18

Yeah, so it's just like, I kind of touched on it before where there is a lot of tight pressure, because like the visa require you to be a full time student. So even if you don't know what you're studying, you have to be a full time, you really need to have to. If you're not studying, then you need to, like, file papers or take a leave of absence, you have to, like you can't stay in the US, you have to go back to your country. It's, you know, and I have been on both sides, because I was an international student on the f1 visa. And I also work at the university like kind of support international students. So once I have my permanent residents and you know, live and work here, I was issuing the i20, which is the important piece of paper that helps student get a visa. So every semester, the university has to check to see each of the international students register, and like, stay in class. And if they like, you know, halfway semester that not show up to class or something, then they will reach out, check in, telling the student that they may violating because their visa is, they need to go to class. So you cannot stop. You cannot just like I'm going to take a break, you cannot stop. If you do then you probably cannot stay here. So that's one thing is very hard. Number two is I cannot work off campus. So that's really limiting me to like working in a cafeteria, working as a tutor, working like some office administrative thing. And this, like affects my ability to learn about myself, because I learned through doing. So it's tricky. And then like after graduation, a lot of places with literally asked in the application tracking system if you require sponsorship, and they will filter you out if you say yes, so you don't even get a chance. You know, so there's all of that. It's just really hard to figure out how, I mean, that's one thing, right? The visa regulation number two is this support system like I was saying like you're figuring out this new world, you're figuring out the work, you know, the environment and the work and the jobs available here and you don't have... you typically don't have family who is not like where if I am grew up in America, maybe my mom has been like, "Oh you're interested in being a nurse. So I have this friend who is a nurse that you can go talk to." So you don't have all of that network that come with your family lived here your entire life. So it's kind of just, like, no support because your parents don't quite understand to guide you. And then also no network, but you got to build your network on yourself without any family or any other thing.

Scott Anthony Barlow 10:12

So I'm curious about, you had mentioned that you had originally decided or at some point along the way decided occupational therapy was going to be the thing for you, and started heading that direction. So what happened that caused you to decide, "hey, yep, this is probably not the right thing for me."?

Quynh Killpack 10:34

Yeah, and I love talking about this. Because the way that I make decisions is very logical and very intentional, like, half my reason, right. So let me start by telling you why. So my mom is a doctor, like, she has a clinic at home when I was growing up. So it was like a living room-kitchen-clinic. Like, I hear people coughing, getting shot kids, like getting injection, not like the other type of shots. But like, I hear sick people every day when I was growing up. And like, I heard people coming to my house and like, even after her clinic hours, like at 10, like knocking on the door, and like, "doctor, like I have this, you know, like, what do I do," and like she would come down and like help them. And I love that. I love the power she has to calm somebody down and to be able to help them on their journey, especially when it comes to health and that like, you know, feeling so sick and so bad. So I love that. I love helping people. When I was in college, like I said, I worked on campus as a tutor. And I would absolutely work for free to help people, like, I love that. So knowing those two things– health care, like I grew up in a health care household, and I love helping people. So I was like, "Okay, I'll do something in healthcare", right. And I also know that I want a relationship with the people that I help with. So I don't want to like, see somebody in like, I don't want to be a surgeon, I don't want to be a doctor where I have like 30 minutes, and I have a list to run through and out of the room. I want a relationship. And the best thing I could find is some kind of therapy like physical therapy, occupational therapy. So that's what I wanted to do. And I had to pick something but at points, I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna pick that." And...

Scott Anthony Barlow 12:19

The timeline pressure too going on in the background.

Quynh Killpack 12:22

Yes. So you're like, you have to pick it because you're done with your associate degree, you have, like 70 credits, like, you know, like you're halfway through your bachelor's degree, you got to move on. Yes. So fast forward, I have... I just picked whatever bachelor degree, and I picked public health. And then when I graduate, I have one year, the visa allow you one year if you're not in STEM. If you're in STEM, you have three years, not fair. You have one year before you need a working visa. So during one year, I worked for a physical therapy clinic. And so this is why I was like, "not for me." So I work there. And I was an exercise assistant. So I just show people how to do that exercise, and I explain. And like, I also be there to be in the environment to watch, right? This is why I love doing– to figure things out. Because I can watch and I can see, okay, the physical therapists like, you know, I see that they're on their feet a lot, they're over a table all the time, they have to be really strong, like, if there's something, like, have a ski accident or something like they can't work, because they have to be strong. They have to do, like, therapy on people, and they have to do that all day long, and they have to hunched over this table this whole time. And like, you know, it's super funny, because I would say that, like, I don't like to touch people that much. This is where I clarify that, like, I like to help people by talking to them, not touching.

Scott Anthony Barlow 13:58

Well, that's an interesting realization, then. That is a... that seems like a deal breaker. So at that point, you realize this is not going to work out. What did you do next?

Quynh Killpack 14:09

So I was... I did a lot of things when I was in university. So I volunteer for the international student office, I was there at every orientation, volunteering, you know, and like creating international students. And then I was a tutor. And then when I went to university, when I transferred I was an advisor. So I was a peer advisor, help people picking out classes and choosing major, a lot of talking and I love that. I love that. So again, going back to what I've done before, like trying to make a decision. So I was like, I want to be an academic advisor at a university. And that was my goal, but I couldn't get in because you need to master for that. But admissions are usually the one office that have a lot of positions hiring. So that's where I got in and you know, so in admissions, there's the admission counselors, the one that go to high school and college fair and talking to parents and students. So I applied for that at the university I worked at, and I didn't get that. But at the same time, I applied for another college that is close by, and I got into international admission, which is I'm on the other side of the table now, right? So, you know, so I love interacting with students. And it sounds super cool, because I got that job, which I get to help international students, like, I know how much help they need, and how lonely and how isolating it would be. So I'm like, I love that job. And also, it paid for you to travel. So...

Scott Anthony Barlow 15:47

So looking back on that, I'm curious, you know, when you got to that point in your career, what did you feel like, what was a better fit in so many different ways? What really stood out to you that, you know, this is a great next evolution, next step?

Quynh Killpack 16:05

I think the whole thing is a great evolution, because, you know, it's just like, I've always tried to tell myself that what I need to know to move forward is in each step. So it's just like, there's insights in each step that like, right, like, I want to be in healthcare, because healthcare help people, like, that makes sense at that time, you know. So go into that. And then like, "oh, wait, I like education more." So go into that. And then I want to be an academic advisor, but testing that out, and like I couldn't, unless I have to do a master's degree. And I was like, I think I applied for it too. So and then, like, I applied for it, but like, "oh, I don't feel like I wanted to do it. I just want to be a student facing right now. I don't want to go to more school." And then that's how it leads me to like the International admission piece. So all of it is how it's supposed to be. Because if I don't try it out, and I will still be thinking, like, health care that makes sense, health care help people. But like, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't make sense, you know, so it's just like every step has an insights to propel you to the next steps.

Scott Anthony Barlow 17:16

You hit on something that I think is really critical and often gets missed. You mentioned that you could try and you know, plan everything out. But you know, we wouldn't... My family and I really started doing a lot of international travel. We actually, we tried to plan as much as we possibly could. And I think you know this very well, but so it's not going to come as a surprise, that one of the things that we found is really, you can only do so much planning, like you can only do so much planning before you have to get in there and experience it in so many different ways. And the most valuable pieces of that travel were getting in there, experiencing the things that you didn't know and couldn't plan for. And I think the same thing is true. And it sounds like that's what you're getting at is like you had to go there, you had to have those experiences and those roles. And then those pave the way for the next situation– those learnings then could be applied to the next situation. I think that's really cool. And that so often gets missed. Okay, so you're in international admissions. At some point you decide, there needs to be a next step. Tell me about what happened that caused you to decide, "hey, I need to make another change."

Quynh Killpack 18:35

Yeah. So going back to that how, you know, so the plan is to get in front of students and interacting with them. Great. I'm there. Done. Right? So my first trip was, and you're going to like this, I got to go to recruit students in Vietnam. I get to go home. And that was two months after I got the job. And luckily, I don't need a visa to go to Vietnam because I'm a Vietnamese citizen. So that was the first time that I got to work in my country, because I left when I was 17. And a lot of Asian students, they don't get to do sports, they don't get to work, you just study. You just studied through the whole high school. It's pretty intense in Asia, in terms of studying. So I never get to work there, and I haven't been there. So that was 19. Right? So I haven't been there for eight years and working there anywhere. I just go there to visit my family. So haven't really into practice, like interacting with life outside of my family, right, every time when I go visit and kinda like... So Vietnam now is like a new place to me. So I love working there, you know, and that's planted an idea in my head of like, would I find a job that allowed me to work here more? And at the time that international admission job, it was support was to allow me to go to Vietnam at least once a year, every year. But that was 2019. So 2020 happens. COVID happens. So I can't, like I have to cancel my trip to Vietnam, like, I have another trip plan that I have to cancel that, and then I couldn't travel anywhere, either. You know, like, so that's planted the idea, because I get curious about the place that I grew up in now, like, seeing it through the lens as an adult. And I love being able to... that my parents have visibility into my life, and I can share with them without a call, like a report, where every month you call with your parents one time, and you just say, like, "this is what happened in one month", like it's not natural. But if I live close to them, and I go to work every day, and they come home every day, and they get a peek into my life, like I love to have that again, you know. So the combination of the countries seems interesting for me being close to family. Also, I see that my parents are getting older, and every time I meet them is more significant to me. Because if you don't see them for so long, and you see them and now they're like, I don't know, go to bed earlier, and wake up at like four in the morning. You're like, "what? Are you old people now? So just the combination of those things where it's planted the idea, but then I stick with international admissions for two years, because I love helping students and like, again, like, I haven't changed. I love helping international students. I love talking to them. So that's... I stay in that for two years. And then you know that idea, just keep lingering. And that's where I reach out to you guys.

Scott Anthony Barlow 21:46

Which idea are you referring to specifically that kept lingering for you?

Quynh Killpack 21:51

The idea that, how can I find a job that allows me to live and work in both country? That now I'm in the US and be close to my parents.

Scott Anthony Barlow 22:00

Yeah. So I thought that was fascinating when you and I got to chat a little over a year ago. And I thought that it was really pretty amazing that you were interested in doing that. And also, you know, not that long later, you've been able to do a bit of that, which is really, really cool. So what happened between... take us between then and now where that idea was lingering, and then you know where you're at now.

Quynh Killpack 22:33

Okay, so I found you guys, this podcast, right. And I know you help people with getting clear idea and articulate the strength on, you know, like, articulate the goal and the strength and how to get to the next step. So I got on a call with you. And then I listened to the podcast, and then I commit to the Career Change Bootcamp. And then we got to work with Phillip. So I started working with Phillip in March. So from March to December of 2021. And so originally, the plan was, like I said, where I can work and live in both countries, you know, and I have no idea how to get there. I don't even know where to start. And I get paralyzed during research. And I feel like I have to take courses and go to extra schools and like, I want a concrete plan, but I just... I don't know, I'm just like, I can distill it down. You know, so I just went through the bootcamps, I got clear on my strength, I also make a ideal career profile where I've never think about because I've never get the time to think about like, all the things that in the career profile, like not just like, "What do you want to do? And like, you know, not just what you want to do, who do you want to do it with? And what this group of people like, what's their mission? And like, what their characteristic are? Like, how much money do you want to make, right?" And, like, speaking about, one of the things that changed for me is like, when I was in college, I was like, I love helping people, I don't care about money at all, like I don't make decisions based on the job that, like, give me the most money. Also, there's this thing of like, money is evil and like you shouldn't be chasing over money, like in my head. But then I grew up and I have bills. And I was like, like I want to make money. It's just growing up and finding that balance was like well the world run on money, like my food run on money, my health care run on money, so I need a sufficient amount, you know, and then also, my parents spend all of their savings in my education, so I need money to take care of them. So I don't need money for money. I need money to be able to take care of my family, my future family, my parents, like, you know, things like that, like you know. So, the ideal career profile helped me distill all of that into the page of like, "Here's my strengths. And here's what my ideal situation looks like." And I remember, I was just like, my ideal salary, I think with Phillip, like I said that "okay, my next job would just be like, how much I make right now plus with like, two flights to Vietnam per year", which is like $4,000 more, and then bam, that's my ideal number right there. And, like Phillip says something that I keep thinking about in my head. And Phillip was like, "Quynh, I want you to like..." he's almost like telling me to dream bigger, because this definitely affects more areas in my life than just the current job, plus two flights to Vietnam a year. He's like, "it can afford you more things." And it does change your life, not just that you can buy more things, but also, like all the things that, take care of people and feel more secure, and like, invest in yourself.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:04

You can further all of the other goals that you have. Money is a wonderful tool, and finances are a wonderful tool to be able to help you accomplish the things that are most important to you.

Quynh Killpack 26:14

Yeah, exactly.

Scott Anthony Barlow 26:16

Yeah. So that is really wonderful that Phillip was able to help you think bigger, not just about finances, but about the whole entire profile of what you wanted. That's amazing. And thinking about now, versus when you started, when you started really pulling what you already knew about yourself together, and then began turning that into what we often call an ideal career profile, and then using that. Do you feel like you got what you were looking for in your current role? Tell me a little bit about that. What are you really excited about that lines up with what you wanted and began to identify back over a year ago?

Quynh Killpack 27:03

I got remote work. So at my work, I'm an Executive Associate. I do sourcing, I work for a talent agency. That is like helping with tech startups. So I started my new job in January, then I've been working remotely full time. I have my parents with me, they were visiting, which if you know if that I... the reason why I started working with you guys was because of that. Yeah, so when they were here, I was able to, like, eat breakfast and lunch with them every day because they stay at my house and I work from home. And I like, I was able to, like, take walks with them because they like to walk in the morning, you know. And also, I was able to help them buy a house and turn that into an Airbnb. So yeah...

Scott Anthony Barlow 27:32

[27:53] That is cool, because that's something you had sort of casually mentioned when we chatted as, I can't remember how you termed it at the time. But I remember thinking like that's cool that that's something that you know, she wants to help with. And so that's come to fruition now, huh?

Quynh Killpack 28:10

Yeah, we have a first guest, our first Airbnb guest, a few weeks ago. And the reason I mentioned all of that is because, you know, I think with, you know, working remotely, which is something that I want, I was able to spend more time with my parents and like, go see houses. And also, you know, like, run over after work, like sometimes the plumber just, like, come in the middle of the day, and I like, work out of that house, because it's like 15 minutes away from my house, so I can meet up with that plumber. So all of that definitely were able to get more stuff done because of that arrangement.

Scott Anthony Barlow 28:51

That is so cool.

Quynh Killpack 28:52

You know, so and then also the finance. So my job, the salary is higher than... and even Phillip helped me during, you know, the nine months that I was with him, he's like helped me with my performance review and asking for a higher salary. So I have the experience too and it's, like, scared me to death. But I asked him once there and then I asked him a second time when I get my new job. So I got two times down my belt, you know, but I did get a higher salary range and also, you know, I got commission, right? So it's even higher than that. So it's definitely like I feel like it's better, my job pays for my gym now. I can go to any gym, which is awesome. So yeah.

Scott Anthony Barlow 29:41

That's amazing. What advice would you give to someone who is maybe a couple of opportunities ago, a couple of your jobs ago, where they realize that what they're doing currently is not quite the right fit and they want to find the next evolution of what is the right fit for them? So what advice would you give to that person who's listening right now?

Quynh Killpack 30:06

I would say, just like, think about reflecting on your past and like, how do you make decisions that you're confident about. Because people make decisions differently. If it is talking to somebody, if it is going out there to do it, right. Or if it's reading a book, like reading a ton about it, then go and do that, know that that's how I make my decisions and go and do that. And actually, like, don't just plan or just research and study, like, take the steps. The steps are golden. The steps are packed with stuff that help you on the next level in the game. So you have to take the step, you have to play the game to get to the next level, like you can't just get to level 10 without playing all the levels.

Scott Anthony Barlow 30:57

I think that's such a wonderful point, and I love how you've equated it to a game to like, you have to take the steps to be able to play the game, you have to take actions to move forward. Otherwise, you don't get to play the game. And that's just part of how life works in so many challenging and wonderful ways, I believe.

Quynh Killpack 31:15

Yeah. And then also, if you take a step, and you're like, "Wow, this is not what I think of or this is different." It's okay, I think that just you'll feel proud of yourself that you've done something to move yourself forward from where you are, like you're not right from where you are, this is how you push yourself forward. And you'll be proud of that process and as be helpful. So it's okay if you're just in progress, and your first try, and you don't get that like, we call it Bullseye candidate. But you don't get that Bullseye anyway. But I think that you will have fun along the way. And also, just a bonus thing, is that like, if you don't do something just because you think that is so hard, like really take stock of all of the hard things that you do for everybody else, and your employers, like, think of all the time that somebody else or you employer asks you to do something that you have no idea how to do, and you figure it out, somehow you just like scrabble through and you figure it out, you know, so this is what you're going to do for yourself, like, you worse this, you know, to do this hard thing for yourself.

Scott Anthony Barlow 32:31

Many of the stories that you've heard on the podcast are from listeners that have decided they want to take action, and taking the first step of having a conversation with our team to try and figure out how we can help. And if you want to implement what you have heard, and you want to completely change your life and your career, then let's figure out how we can help. So here's what I would suggest, just open your phone right now and open your email app. And I'm going to give you my personal email address, scott@happentoyourcareer.com just email me and put 'Conversation' in the subject line. And then when you do that, I'll introduce you to the right person on our team. And you can have a conversation with us, we'll try and understand your goals and what you want to accomplish in your career no matter where you're at. And we can figure out the very best way that we can help you and your situation. So open up right now and send me an email with 'Conversation' in the subject line; scott@happentoyourcareer.com.

Scott Anthony Barlow 33:35

Hey, I hope you loved this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And if this has been helpful, then please share this podcast with your friends, with your family, with your co-workers that badly need it. Here's a sneak peek into what we have coming up in store for you next week.

Introduction 33:51

To me, like that's the whole idea of Happen To Your Career, rather than falling into a role because you are in the right place at the right time, you have discovered what place and what time you want to be in, and then those opportunities surface themselves to you because you're searching in a different way.

Scott Anthony Barlow 34:10

Being able to find and articulate your strengths is one of the most eye opening parts of the career change process. Consequently, we talk a lot about strengths on this podcast. But one thing we haven't talked about much is what can happen if you dig in and focus on your strengths for years as opposed to simply finding out and knowing your strengths and, you know, going to make a career change. What happens when you continue that self-discovery work and tweaking your roles and how you're spending your time over and over again to better align with your strengths? When you do that you can reach levels you never thought possible. All that and plenty more next week right here on Happen To Your Career. Make sure that you don't miss it. And if you haven't already, click Subscribe on your podcast player so that you can download this podcast in your sleep, and you get it automatically, even the bonus episodes every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. Until next week. Adios. I'm out.